Degree in Maths and Statistics

[MathsAndStatisticsDegree]

DD is studying Maths, Further Maths, Computer Science and Physics A' level. Her predicted grades are AABB. She has decided she wants to study Maths and Statistics and would like a campus university that also offers a year in industry. Any advice about which university would meet her criteria with her predicted grades would be very much appreciated. Thank you x

I highly recommend Lancaster School of Maths.

To avoid possible confusion, if the OP and her DD are looking into this, they should search for 'Lancaster mathematical sciences'. The 'Lancaster University School of Mathematics' is a specialist sixth form college in Preston!

DS is doing the same a levels and has Sheffield has given him both a 3 a level and a 4 a level offer.

Thank you , @ErrolTheDragon

Nottingham is a good choice, OP. Another one is Glasgow.

It is a 3-campus university, to be sure, so slightly different. But standard entry requirement is AAB. The science campus is in a lovely part of town. Student satisfaction is very high and Glasgow Maths was tops in Scotland and in the top 10 nationally in that REF I mentioned earlier. Like Lancaster it is coming on very strong in recent years, and its reputation hasn’t caught up.

Glasgow Maths is now Top 10 in The Times and Top 15 in tThe Complete University Guide and The Guardian. I think that is all for next year.

I am not sure whether they do Data Science or Morse. Math and Stats is accredited by the RSS. (All M&S programmes DD is considering should be.)

Being in Scotland it is a 4 year degree, but there are some advantages to that. I recognise it is an outlier but if DD needs an attractive choice this is such.

It isn’t insurance, however. She needs something less demanding for that, unless she is willing to take a gap year, BBB or ABC. Every candidate does.

University of Surrey

Placement years are advertised online, just like any other job. You can search for them on job sites like Indeed. They are quite competitive though.

@pokerfayce The unis do not make this clear though. Many students and parents believe the uni has a bank of placements lined up with companies. Mostly they don’t. Support comes down to help with cv and a chat about how to apply. They don’t tell students that the world and his wife is applying too. I think this is the problem and for some degrees it really isn’t needed as long as the student does holiday work. A numerate maths grad is really not going to be without a job after graduating, so I think there’s an element of mis-selling by unis. As @StuntNun says, many have to give up because there are not enough to go round and they are not able to find one but unis don’t give out stats on this element of the course. There’s always stories at how great a handful of unis are but they are a minority and successful dc have no idea about how many are not.

Yes, I agree there is an element of mis-selling.

However, university careers advice varies in quality and many students are so bombarded with inbound emails full of fluff that they miss the few bits of key info that can make a difference. If they don't know how to apply for a placement, they also won't know how to apply for a summer internship (again advertised online via the usual jobs boards) or, ultimately, a graduate job. When I was that age there was a "milkround" with careers fairs in year 3. These days, the engagement starts much earlier and is accessible to everyone online. In some ways that is better, but it takes a certain amount of drive to navigate it. The most astute students are applying for their first summer internship in the Autumn term of year 1, because that is when they are advertised.

I saw some of the weekly careers emails my son was sent when doing stats at a Russell Group uni. The main careers service newsletter invited students to lots of "how to" workshops. His departmental careers newsletter had paragraphs of forgettable info and, at the bottom, usually 2-3 links to adverts for jobs/internships/placements. I think those must have been for companies that approached the uni directly, because in the same time period I was able to find dozens online via Indeed. He wouldn't have thought to look there if I hadn't prodded him in the right direction.

... Another mistake I saw my son make in year 1 was that he applied to 1 or 2 internships, and waited to hear back from them. He didn't realise that might take weeks and that the odds were against him getting an offer. Therefore, in year 2, he applied for a dozen and luckily he got one. Some of his friends applied for many more before they were successful.

@pokerfayce Lots of students don’t get anything in y1. However they can get a holiday job and that’s worthwhile.

Applying for 20 internships is seriously hard work and most students don’t understand the dedication and time required when they apply for this type of degree. They do believe the placements are lined up by the uni for the students on that degree. It’s a rude awakening when that’s not the case. No uni gives stats on success rates.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that, for maths, the top unis don’t want students to have a year out and don’t offer it. Best to keep going in the groove so to speak. I’m still of the opinion that a switched on student with a decent degree and a work ethic evidenced by any work will get a job. They don’t need an internship either, just the right mix of work and study, plus personality plus being good at assessment tests! Careers cannot teach dc how to pass these, or be good at interviews. They can signpost at best. They certainly don’t place dc on placements!

"Lots of students don’t get anything in y1"

Yep, most internships are aimed at penultimate year students. Nevertheless, there are some, and what they can get in year 1 is experience of navigating the jobs boards and preparing applications so that, by year 2, they're able to hit the ground running.

@TizerorFizz touches on a key consideration in her post just above: a placement year inevitably disrupts the flow of learning. Maths and Statistics (or Data Science, etc) is a demanding degree. Gently, candidates have no idea what the discipline is like as they apply to university. The flow from one year to the next, using prerequisite material, can be intense.

I have often argued that a strong STEM applicant can afford a gap year, pedagogically speaking. I am less keen on the placement year for the reason above.

In addition, as a practical matter universities offer varying amounts of support with the placement but none to my knowledge will guarantee it. The work students put into finding one can be quite substantial. This may not be the best use of their time.

When a strong student lands a good placement (because the quality varies) and is prepared to put some work into re-integrating academically, the results can be brilliant. But how often does this happen?

@poetryandwine I think it depends on the scope of the placement itself. A maths student, for example, working with large data sets in a government or commercial setting is likely to keep high order stats skills honed; one signed up for an audit placement is learning valuable skills but high order maths skills are probably not being kept fresh. You will not disagree with that point; I am simply teasing it out explicitly.

I think another issue is that planning accommodation requirements around the vagaries of placements is becoming more challenging because of expense and availability of property and the risk that you are out of synch with your cohort (either because you are one of the few to secure a placement or because you fail to secure a placement but that is not clear until well into the second year).

My DC don’t do STEM subjects so I have no skin in this game but I have been quite surprised how keen some big companies are to target certain universities. It feels like every other day they’re at DC2s university handing out pens and pizzas to students.

@BrickRedLipstick Undoubtedly - but how many are offering year long placements?

No idea but they are working very hard to attract students from this particular university.

Not expecting you to name a specific university, but is it one of the universities that has been mentioned already on this thread?

If so, I think I might have a good guess as to which one you're talking about.

Begins with a W @Another2Cats …

Presumably Warwick which has some of the best regarded maths and mathematical economics courses in the country as well as MORSE mentioned higher up in the thread.

I have a Mathematics and Statistics degree @poetryandwine and I'm not sure I would agree that it is particularly demanding. The biggest challenge is the pyramidal nature of the subject in that you have to have a secure grasp of the material to be able to move on to the next level.

Many of the Irish universities place their students now if that was an option. University cork and limerick both have guaranteed placements as part of the degree. Normally for 9 months.

I only meant insofar as STEM degrees are amongst the more demanding ones nowadays, @StuntNun . And of course it depends on your aptitudes and the specifics of your degree programme

I completely agree with your last statement