What to choose for UCAS choices if DD wants to apply for multiple courses at same uni?

[cushionfiend]

Hello - I am hoping some wise Mumsnetter that understands UCAS applications can help. My DD would ideally like to take a joint degree at a particular uni. We're in Scotland, and she is only applying to Scottish unis. One of the subjects is quite specialist, and only taught at this 1 Scottish university - let's call it Specialist Subject here for anonymity. So ideally she wants to apply for a joint degree in Specialist Subject & Politics as her top choice. She also wants to apply to the same uni for a joint degree in Politics & Sociology. So far, so good. But she's not sure if she should also apply to the same uni for the single degree in Politics, and the single degree in Specialist Subject. Could this disadvantage her joint degree applications? She currently meets the minimum requirements for S5, so I think her offers may be conditional on doing well at S6. She is also including a Politics degree at another Scottish uni where she already meets the entry requirements from her S5 results, so that would likely be her insurance offer. I've emailed the uni admissions, this is what they said:

'We allow applicants to submit multiple applications to us via UCAS so ultimately that must be your child's decision. All applications are considered on an individual basis in terms of the respective entry requirements.

For most subject areas, we have a flexible degree structure for undergraduates in their first and second years, therefore they will be given the chance to study additional subjects alongside their chosen degree subject(s), and also will have the chance to change their ultimate degree subject(s) if desired and as is appropriate.

We'd recommend that your child apply for the degree plans that they ultimately want to obtain a degree in, as those who have obtained a place directly via UCAS for a programme will have priority in the case of high levels of interest to take other programmes as an extra subject in first and second year.

If your child decides to submit multiple applications to us, they will be reviewed carefully and individually in accordance with our requirements.'

Any advice from someone who understands the system would be gratefully appreciated - many thanks.

It sounds clear from the message that it won't disadvantage her, as they consider each application individually?

@Merrow Thanks for your reply. But could she get 4 (conditional) offers from the same uni, if you see what I mean? Or could it mean she gets rejected for the joint degree she really wants to do, and accepted for a single one instead?

Depends a lot on predicted grade vs likely offer and course popularity. If apply for less than 5 choices and don't get an offer you want you can apply for more. Also universities may offer a different programme if the chosen one is a higher tariff. What you must not do though is email etc on your dcs behalf, as they clearly stated it's their decision.

My honest advice is to apply now for only courses that they actually want to do, then rethink if no offers.

Yes, you can get multiple offers from the same university. If she doesn't get the joint degree but does get in with single subject because of the way the 4 year degrees work in Scotland there's the likelihood that she can still study the other subject and potentially switch to the joint degree if there's space / whatever other criteria they put in place.

You should look at the composition of the degree in programme. In some Scottish universities it is possible to take elective courses from other degree programmes and, assuming they include compulsory ones, even swap the degree to joint or the other one. If that is the case it may be pointless to list so many permutations, especially within the same school of study. The entry criteria are likely to be similar.

When we read UCAS forms to decide whom to invite to interview, or make a conditional offer, we don't see the other programmes (distinguished by a number) for which an applicant is also applying.

I think Liz’s point about making sure you understand whether all these applications actually add anything given the flexibility inherent in the way the courses are programmed is a very good one. If the flexibility is already there, perhaps you should consider doing an FOI request to check if the offer rates are very different for, say, straight spec subject vs spec +poltics. Make sure you ask for the relevant fee group - presumably scottish home student - as rates can vary so widely that over all offer rates can be very misleading.

You have good advice above, OP. I am a former admissions tutor in a large, high tariff English university, so I am not expert on the Scottish aspects of your question.
Everyone wants to attract the strongest cohort possible. This uni can see that your DD is making one application elsewhere; it might be more tactical to make two, if there is a programme here she is somewhat less keen on.

The reason is that I am not clear from your description whether some of the degree programmes will fall under the purview of the same admissions tutors. A number of unis will admit you to only one programme per School or Dept, and if you have made multiple applications to that unit they may admit you to the one more in need of bums on seats.

This is by no means a uniform policy. But the cynic in me is concerned that a uni which would admit you to more than one programme per unit would be keen to highlight that. You did not quote anything of this nature.

OTOH when they have their own admissions teams, and sometimes when admissions are done centrally, separate Schools and Departments are competing for strong students, so I wouldn’t worry about that. They will evaluate and offer independently.

In other cases, a central admissions team will place an applicant who has made multiple admissions to different units in the unit with the worst numbers.

You may be able to figure out how admissions are managed by poking around School websites.

In any case, the flexibility offered by the Scottish system is very real, according to my friends who are Scottish academics. It is a great second chance. I hope that takes some pressure off.

PS To clarify, I agree with @YellowAsteroid to a large extent.

In my School we offer many degree programmes and the same tutors evaluate all applications. I am afraid that our most popular programme is always oversubscribed so if candidates offer us an alternative to that we tend to offer them the alternative only. Otherwise we may offer both, or we consult the candidate about their preference if for some reason we are concerned about numbers.

Goodness, lots to think about here - thanks so much to everyone for sharing your experience. A couple more questions off the back of this: if DD was to put their unconditional offer at 2nd choice uni as insurance, and put the favourite joint degree as the firm, and they then didn't get all the grades needed for that conditional offer, could they decline the insurance offer and enter Clearing to try to get a place at the preferred uni? It seemed that there was availability on the favourite courses in Clearing last year, so in that scenario, is it possible that they may consider slightly lower grades in Clearing? Not wildly lower, but if the required ones were AAAAAA and they had AAAAAB, for example.
Also, in the Scottish system, a B in an Advanced Higher is the equivalent of an A at Higher. Does an Advanced Higher B (so a Higher A) in the same subject they already got a A for at Higher, count as an additional A for entry requirements? Sorry, that might not be very clear - an example would be:
Student gets Higher A in History in S5. They then get B in Advanced Higher in History for S6. For entry, does that count as AA, or just one A because it's the same subject?

@cushionfiend Yes I think you can do that, but its a scrum and lots of phone calls.

Hi, OP -

The plan of action you outlined sounds fine.

When I was an admissions tutor our offers to Scottish applicants always specified the level as well as the grade required. We would definitely count your example as one A only. But then I am in England.

If the preferred uni is Edi then see below:

I looked into this recently. for example you are applying to Glasgow University for specialist subject degree, for example Linguistics degree, you will still have to choose 2 other subjects for year 1, then do 2 of the subjects for year 2 then decide wether to continue with 1 or both subjects for the final 2 years. You will be guaranteed a space in the specialist subject class that you originally applied for but wil only be allowed in your other choice classes if there's space. Re advanced highers being double counted, it depends on the Uni- Glasgow and Strathclyde do double count. Yes can reject her offers and go through clearing but no guarantee there would be spaces on course she wants or that they'll take her. I was recommended to only apply for one degree course if in the sane dept as you will only be offered one even if u apply for 4 in the same dept at the same uni and you can't say which of the 4 you'd prefer so u could end up only being offered 1 of your 4 and it being your least preferred.

I'm surprised there is a degree only offered at 1 Uni - is that because there are limited opportunities to go into afterwards? What course is it?

Thanks @KingCatMeowInSpace - it is Glasgow so that's all v useful. I'll check with them tomorrow re the double counting. The 2 subjects are in different departments so that might help. It's all quite complicated, eh!

No problem - I emailed Glasgow uni last week about double counting- I'll see if I can find the email and let you know exactly what they said.

They said "for programmes where advanced highers are not required in the stated entrance requirements, we allow double counting of highers and advanced highers in the same subject when calculating cumulative grades" They also said Grades A and B at advanced higher count as A at higher. Grade C at advanced higher count as B at higher. Hope that helps.

Mine got unconditional offers for both joint and single subject degrees at the same university (Scotland) last year. Some more popular ones eg Edinburgh said you could only apply for one course in particular departments but otherwise seemed no issue.

And yes Glasgow do double count. My son got 5 As and still needed an AH at B in one of the subjects he got an A in at higher to br accepted onto his course.

One option is to apply for first choice course and insurance course at different uni early and see if she gets offers. Then have a second look at alternatives if she gets rejected before the equal consideration deadline. If the first year is the same for all the options then it seems like you would be wasting time applying for several variations of the same thing.

Just to add if preferred uni is UofG then in past years very little/nothing in clearing for Scottish students who are not widening access. If there is it tends to be where Scottish Gov has increased places eg nursing.

Thanks all - yet more really useful info from you all today. Mumsnet is great.