Any interest in a non-Oxbridge/ non-RG parents chat?

[SockFluffInTheBath]

There are lots of threads about applying to Oxbridge and other ‘top’ unis, anyone interested in a thread for those of us with DC looking elsewhere? Not trying to be divisive, but there’s no ‘drop in centre’ thread for other unis, and I thought it might be good to have a space to chat sometimes.

[Title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

how's everyone doing here? We had our last uni visit yesterday and think it might be the one. DD1 loved everything about Swansea - the campus, the tutors, the fact that the hospital is basically on the campus, the free tuition fees if you work in Wales for two years (she's applying for nursing). Also, of course, the beach!

It's the only non-Russell Group on her list - but nursing is such a weird course that I'm assuming that won't make any difference to her career prospects... Her Ucas is already in and she needs to interview at each of her unis (three English/two Welsh - we're English) so we're aware there's still many a slip, but are we foolish to let her go for this one? Feels like RG is pushed so much and I'm really not sure why.

You're very sensible if you let her go for Swansea @minisnowballs ! My dd's boyfriend is there on a healthcare course and loving it, and his rent for year 2 is much cheaper than the norm in Nottingham. No tuition fees are a huge benefit!

We also did hopefully our last open day on Saturday (Aber). DD liked the campus and the town but didn't even want to go to any talks because it doesn't offer what she wants to do - she booked it back when she wanted to do English but after attending talks at Lancaster she changed her mind!

I insisted on her going if she intended putting it on her UCAS form, which she does and she says she would enjoy some of the courses offered but they would definitely not be her first choice.

She's found all the open days really useful, the subject she wants to do wasn't even on her radar before and she's now absolutely sure that carrying on with a language is also a really good move.

But I think we've had enough of open days now (6) and probably have an excessive amount of tote bags!

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees - oh god, we are drowning in tote bags. I have two girls here (one my own, one a Ukrainian foster daughter- RG only so I haven't mentioned on this thread) so we have two of lots of them! DD is the easier one to deal with actually as we're also wading through miles of widening participation stuff for foster daughter and every uni is different. Good to know Open Days have been useful too. I was sceptical but actually it has been really good.

With the next one it is likely to be music conservatoires, so we'll be starting from scratch all over again!

@crazycrofter - that is good to hear. Notts is DD1's top English choice and I know she does hanker after that beautiful campus - but the fees paid at Swansea is a big draw!

It's the only non-Russell Group on her list - but nursing is such a weird course that I'm assuming that won't make any difference to her career prospects..

On the CUG rankings, a lot of nursing/midwifery courses seem to have 99-100% in the graduate prospects section so I don't think she'll have a problem getting a job, especially in Wales.

My DC also really liked Swansea after the open day this weekend!
He said it had a great vibe!

This is a good thing as although the offer is ABB for the course my son is interested in, in reality they will offer or accept lower.

It's BBB for nursing @Inezz but again I think they'll accept lower. And if you're not doing funded healthcare degrees there seems to be cold hard cash for those with As

Keep all the tote bags. They come in useful for wrapping around kitchen equipment to stop it clinking when moving.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees interestingly the IFS undertook a very detailed study on the impact of undergraduate degrees on lifetime earnings. Within its findings

”There is little difference between average lifetime returns across university types for women. Within all types, a large majority of women benefit from attending HE. Only the top end of the distribution of women attending Russell Group universities can expect higher lifetime returns from going to university than women who attended universities elsewhere.”

That study was published in early 2020, so relatively recent.

For healthcare related degrees, degrees accredited by a professional body and other vocational degrees it doesn't matter where you go to university.

@boys3 There seems to be less determination to aim for the highest paid jobs among women. They do gravitate to lower paid grad roles where uni does not matter. I find it a shame.

I have recently seen mums from DDs old primary school. They were very keen on a good grammar/uni education back then but now the girls overwhelmingly work for the state or charities. The girls seem happy with that. I notice a poster said earlier that working in a highly paid job is greed. My view is that these people pay higher taxes and pay more for state services. If we continue to think its being greedy to have well paid job, is this good for society? Almost certainly not. Do mums effectively prevent girls earning well by bringing them up to despise the well paid? I have no evidence (seen it in my wider family) and it certainly is not what I would tell a DD. It seems others do see earning highly as something that’s undesirable.

@TizerorFizz of course everyone wants to be remunerated well for what they do, but many people prioritise job satisfaction or may have other reasons for not aiming right to the top.

For example, DD would hate to work in an office. She has CFS and would end up with her head on the desk asleep every day.

She is shortly going to start a healthcare related masters for a role that she really wants to do (and for which there are guaranteed jobs). It won't pay as much as being a top lawyer or investment banker, but those kind of jobs would be her worst nightmare.

Also, I don't buy the argument that justifies the highest earners paying the most taxes.

So you think the highest earners should not pay the most tax? 1% highest earners pay 29% of income tax. How on earth would we manage the state without such high earners? You suggested high earners were greedy. Thats a dreadful position to take when we all benefit from them. I suggest the sneering is not justified or fair. Your family might prefer state funded jobs but others provide more tax to pay for their choice. I really would be supportive of others that take a different view because we need them!

Plus I think the IFS also looked into the value of RG grad earnings vs other unis. RG grads still out earn them. Obviously RG plus the 4 will be similar but there are some fantastic jobs to be had from a non RG education. Nursing will never be the lowest returning degree in terms of income because it offers near 100% grad employment. Degrees like English from non RG are more problematic and the arts even more so. Again English is female dominated.

@TizerorFizz I'd be very happy for DD1 to do a high-earning job. She's not had her aspiration limited - both her parents have oxbridge degrees and she's had ever opportunity to look at a full breadth of opportunities (including medicine/law). She's adamant that this is what she wants. I think given the opportunities for career development she could do very well in future with a degree in nursing behind her and she'll be able to put her incredible people skills to good use.

I also wonder whether she might end up in some kind of health/political thing eventually - she is a national debate champion and a-levels are politics, biology, history.

Given that she wants a degree that is pretty much the same everywhere, I'm suggesting to her she does it where it makes her happy - and if they'll pay her fees so much the better. RG doesn't seem to offer much of a benefit here.

@minisnowballs I was not necessarily saying that’s the case and I know a few Oxbridge grads who didn’t earn much! That’s not a guarantee of high earnings. However we can subliminally suggest that girls will like a nice job for life in the NHS or charity sector. As DDs went to a girls’ school I was surprised how few wanted the same as the boys at a well known boys’ school aspired to. I’m unclear as to why this happens.

DD1 was also at a girls school (mixed 6th) however the message is all STEM and computer science - whereas the linked boys school focus is on performing arts. She constantly felt pushed into Physics and maths, which she heartily dislikes, despite having perfectly good GCSEs in both.

Her dad does have a 'nice job for life in the charity sector' though, so maybe she thinks that's a boy thing !

My DDs avoided the stem push. DD1 was good enough to do stem if she wanted snd DH is a chartered engineer so she could have made use of a lot of expertise in that field. Instead she had her own ideas and interests. I can think of a handful of her friends who have made careers out of stem subjects. Mostly international or ethnic minority girls. The boys who were (are still) her friends just aimed higher after uni. It’s difficult to know why. However it was them who inspired DD. Not her own school.

I don't think that young people who don't want to work in London/for a magic circle firm/big 4 company lack ambition. They just aren't interested in that kind of career.

And many people just can't afford to live in London and really dislike the place.

Most of DD's friends studied STEM subjects, as did DD. She has always wanted to work in a medical related career.

@RampantIvy Qe there’s more jobs in London that pay well than those. I do know not all dc will want London based jobs but what I don’t like is any sneering and name calling of those that do. We all need to acknowledge high salaries and the tax they generate are necessary.

My DS is looking at Surrey and UEA to study chemistry, not sure what others he's looking at. Surrey open day was great, a really positive a really positive atmosphere.

This is one of the few higher education threads where there is no sneering at young people who don't want to pursue a career in the city/ finance/law etc.

My comment is really in response to the comments on other higher education threads where "lowly" careers in allied healthcare professions or teaching are deemed not aspirational.

Interestingly, I received a lot of thanks for that post.

I think this is a lovely thread, and thank you @SockFluffInTheBath for starting it.

@Polkadotgal my DD did her work experience at Surrey Uni. She really liked it (a relative teaches there)- I think she would have gone for it if it wasn't for the fact she would feel like she was being watched! Said it was a lovely friendly place where people looked after you. Lots of mature students too which she rather liked, for balance.

I've been a bit quiet on the thread. I've a foot in lots of different camps... I went to Oxbridge, have collected multiple degrees, and I'm a teacher. Not at all a high earner, and no interest in that. (Is that a waste?) My DW (also Oxbridge) has been a university academic all her career, but has somewhat unexpectedly recently become a high earner through a series of fortunate events.

DD is currently in her final year at an art school, aiming to scrape a living as a freelance artist, or to go into museum work, or some combination of the two. DS is applying for a mix of Oxbridge/RG and not, in a STEM subject where he wants to go into academic research.

So, live and let live? Obviously it's great for the country that we have young people going into all sorts of professions, trades, and crafts. So long as they're making informed decisions and have reasonable expectations, then surely that's OK?

With a leg in both RG and non-RG camps (our dcs are different after all), I am enjoying the fresh air of this thread.

However, I would prefer not to have reverse snobbery directed at high earners. It is not necessary.

Also agreed that this thread is lovely and supportive; let's keep it that way, There are plenty of other threads where viewpoints can be robustly debated.