Does your DC's school routinely give them copies of their references?

[puppycuddle]

My DC2 is in year 13 and submitted his UCAS application last week. His form teacher showed him his academic references, but he wasn't given a copy. When my older DC1 was at the same school with a different form teacher he was offered and given a copy. What is the usual protocol?

DC2 didn't ask for a copy at the time because he assumed he'd be able to read them from the UCAS form, but now realises that isn't possible.

We don't give out copies. It seems pretty random whether schools do or not. You can get them from UCAS if you submit the right form.

DD was shown hers but not given a copy

Mine was not shown hers at all.

Mine wasn't shown hers. She got 5 good offers though so it must have been OK.

Not sure why they would need it, especially if they've seen it. You can get a copy from UCAS if you insist

Because it is a report about them, which influences their future, and because he would like to show it to me, and because I would like to see it, and because there is no reason for secrecy.

His teachers hardly know him - he's only been at the school for just over a year. His impression of having read the references is that they were very positive, but not particularly personal. His form teacher told him that the teachers are given a template and sentences to pick and choose from. I'm curious to see the end result.

I did read DS1's reference a few years back - it seemed warm and personal to me, and I was impressed. He was applying to Oxbridge, so perhaps they put more effort in. However, the sixth form has doubled in size since then, so I imagine the process has had to become more automated.

There is no secrecy though, as he's seen it. He can ask UCAS for a copy. I don't think Oxford are swayed by warm & fuzzy feelings in school references. They focus on grades, admission tests and interviews.

You sound a tad defensive.🙂 I can understand why teachers prefer references not to be seen by parents, but many parents who take an interest in their children will naturally be curious to see them and bemused by the need to put in a formal request to UCAS.

We show pupils theirs as we’re submitting them, but don’t give copies.

(Possibly, I now realise, so that patents don’t critique them)

Yep - I can understand that. However, my son has critiqued it, and told me about it, so I'm naturally curious to see it too.

He did say it was positive, though a bit odd in places, e.g. one teacher said "He lives and breathes [subject x]" but it is the subject he likes least, and not at all related to the degree he is applying to. Also, the teacher of the subject most related to his chosen degree course barely mentioned the extended project that was the subject of a whole paragraph in his personal statement.

His name is similar to another boy's and sometimes teachers mix them up.

Our students can read it shortly before their UCAS application is submitted. We don't allow time for parents or students to complain or pressure teachers to make changes.

Also, the teacher of the subject most related to his chosen degree course barely mentioned the extended project that was the subject of a whole paragraph in his personal statement.
That might be deliberate. If a pupil has talked a lot about something in their personal statement, I would briefly confirm the truth of it in the reference, but then write about something else that the PS doesn’t cover so that admissions gets an even broader view of the pupil.

I'm not sure what you're looking for tbh.

Your son has seen the reference and said it was positive.

Did the teacher of the subject close to his degree choice teach him for the EPQ? If not, they won't talk about that in their paragraph. Each teacher will write one paragraph per subject plus an EPQ paragraph and form tutor or Hoy will top and tail it to give it more warmth.

It feels slightly aggressive in the way you have written this and like you're trying to catch the school out - I may be wrong as it is hard to read tone when written. The school may be picking up on this.

The school don't really have to share them but have already shown your son. Are you wanting to complain about it?

Thanks. It seems a contrast with my DS1's reference, which picked up on the project theme and said how impressed they were that he'd gone beyond the curriculum to use technique X, etc. It could just come down to individual teacher effort - as I said, the sixth form has doubled in size, so their effort is naturally spread more thinly.

He wil get good offers, so it's not a big concern. I started the thread to find out what other schools do, and it sounds like they are similar.

"Did the teacher of the subject close to his degree choice teach him for the EPQ?"

It wasn't an EPQ - it was an internal supra-curricular project, supervised by that teacher.

And yes, you're misreading my tone. 🙂

If your DS is happy to show you the reference that the school wrote to support his application, he will presumably be happy to call UCAS and request it. From other people's reporting of the process (as far as I'm aware, none of our DC felt the need to have a copy of theirs) it doesn't seem to be a particularly big issue. Surely, he would have noticed if there was something wrong with it and would have asked the school to amend it, e.g., if it appeared to be referencing the other student and not himself, if that'ssomething that's worrying you?

What a strange comment. Simply confirming that most parents don't get a copy of the reference nor have need to see it. Mind you, I didn't see DD's PS when she applied either.