Environmental economics

[KevinDeBrioche]

DD (yr 12) is interested in an economics degree with a strong slant towards sustainability / environment. She's found the LSE BsC which looks great but I'm (privately) concerned about competition for places and the cost of three years in London which will be a stretch ( but if she did get a place we'd move heaven and earth to make it possible )

She's not interested in Warwick (which is the only other place we've found a similar 'headline' course) and would prefer a northern, buzzy city. Is anyone aware of other places offering something similar that we might have missed?

She's a strong candidate, 10 GCSEs 9-7 from a bog standard comp and likely to be predicted As in maths, economics and biology. Planning on doing a relevant EPQ and is already reading around the subject and attending relevant evening lectures at our local uni when they are available. Still, knowing the standard of intentional candidates, I suspect LSE will be a highly aspirational choice and we'll need other more likely options.

Thank you so much 😊

My DS did BSc economics at LSE and took the environmental economics modules. He absolutely loved it and he knows that LSE is probably the best in the UK for environmental economics. The geography department and the economics department both teach it now.

UCL also is good for environmental economics.

Outside of London, Exeter and Edinburgh are well known for environmental economics and economics of climate change.

Imperial is good as well, but might be even more competitive than LSE

Thank you so much! Is your DS a really high flyer? DD is doing really well considering the slightly rough comp she attended for yr7-11 but I'm concerned that LSE is so super competitive.

She's been selected for a Cambridge uni run 'widening participation' scheme so maybe that will help in the application process.

What exactly is one supposed to do with a degree in environmental economics?

Try to do as much research as possible and to compare different opinions, from those who say it's great to those who say it's bull.

Things like ESG are very divisive. Many people think it's a fad, but cannot say it out loud because their employers pay lip service to the acronym; those who do speak out get fired, like this guy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62085294 who now writes for the Financial Times (no, he's not a climate denier nor an extremist nutjob).

The risk that interest in ESG etc will diminish is real.
A degree in a more traditional field of economics, but with the option to take course in environmental economics ESG etc, might be a much safer bet.

The field is also incredibly political: scientists are unanimous that nuclear energy is safe, and that the best way to net zero is combining renewables + nuclear, but there is too much political opposition to the idea.

PS Watch The Industry on the BBC Iplayer, at least season 3, episode 1, and how they talk about ESG. It's really something.

Completely agree with @ParentOfOne

He doesn't work in finance. He works for a consultancy in their renewable energy practice.

@ParentOfOne there are lots of careers available in environmental economics. Lots of stuff to do with tackling climate change. There's a whole field of people working in decarbonisation.

ESG can be a fad, but it isn't always.

Agree with this

As others have said she will have more choice with an economics degree that has modules in environmental economics for her undergraduate degree as it will keep her options open.

Both Leeds and Edinburgh offer masters in Ecological Economics which she could study after her undergraduate degree.

Or perhaps for an economics degree with a placement year and spend the placement in that field.

I did note York does a degree in Environment, Economics and Ecology both as a BSc (with or without placement year) and 4 year Masters.

Very helpful, thank you all. We will drill down into course content and see where that takes us.

@KevinDeBrioche r.e. environmental economics as a career check the graduate destinations of:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Graduate/degree-programmes-2024/MSc-Environmental-Economics-and-Climate-Change

It's a good career path

I have an Economics degree and have worked for years as an Economist. Environmental economics is an area within its own right and there are a reasonable amount of jobs in it and I have worked alongside some environmental economists on various projects. There are roles within the civil service, within departments concerned with regeneration and housing etc which will concern evaluating projects including from an environmental economics and policy point of view though you can enter these with a general economics degree, anything over 50% economics is OK for civil service though almost all will have economics degrees in Economist positions at 2:1 or First. Pay is reasonably good and family friendly.

There are also consultancy jobs, again can enter with a general or specialist economics degree depending on how competitive, generally longer hours and deal with clients. Also worked with a man who worked for the World Bank, he had a phD and that's much more competitive, a general first economics degree. Finance sometimes has roles though they are a bit for show.

Re where LSE if its this course https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/undergraduate/bsc-environment-and-sustainable-development-with-economics#entry-requirements or general economics is very competitive, says 23 to 1 and it for general economics is similar in competitiveness to Oxbridge though tends to take people who put LSE first, which obviously they don't know but from personal statement LSE course is clearly targeted. Obviously it is London prices re accomodation. It's also a very late offer maker. I definitely would not bank on an offer there.

Personally I would do a general economics degree and then a Masters later more specialist if still preferred area or general economics then specialist job but if they are 100% certain then a specialist degree could work well. I think its an area which isn't too difficult to get work in unless aiming at super competitive jobs like World Bank or overseas economic development. For general UK jobs I think it would be fine for work and I see it as an expanding area.

I think you're wrong. There's no doubt that we need to be more environmentally conscious & that economies will have to adjust to dwindling resources.

With around 7 million deaths a year attributed to air pollution, simply going for cleaner air should be enough incentive. Or cleaner water, soil, greater biodiversity etc

Petroleum is a finite resource which we cannot replace, it's crucial in the production of medicines, heart valves, artificial limbs, respirators etc, it's crazy to keep burning it.

Yes, of course it's political, anything that limits capitalism from exploiting the planet which we all share is.

I think too many comments misunderstand the matter entirely.
This is not about entering into a debate on the merits of environmentalisms, and on whether ESG is a fad or not.

This is about giving advice to a teenager who is in Y12 and who needs to choose their undergraduate degree.

OP, did you mean this LSE undergraduate course? https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/undergraduate/bsc-environment-and-sustainable-development-with-economics

Regardless of your opinions on ESG etc, regardless of whether you think that it's all bull or that it's a revolution which only conspiracy theorists dare deny and discredit, regardless of all of that, a few points remain true:

• it is a niche
• It is very, very, very, very unlikely that a teenager can be absolutely sure that they are so interested in such a narrow niche
• Even if they are genuinely interested now, they might change their mind during the course of their undergraduate studies
• Since it is a niche, there is a very clear risk that, by the time the teenager graduates, it may have fallen out of favour, there may not be enough jobs, etc
• a more generic course in economics, with the option to take some optional courses in environmental economics etc, leaves many more doors open. I see only upsides and no downsides in choosing a more general course.
• More specialist roles, like professional economists etc, will tend to require additional qualifications on top of the 3-year Bachelor, so that's one more reason to do a generalist bachelor which leaves more doors open

Again, this is not about ESG per se, but it's to do with the field being a niche. I think I would give the same advice to anyone considering such a narrow niche for their undergraduate degree.

@MonkeyToHeaven On what would I be wrong, exactly? It's not like I denied climate change and advocated we all drive Range Rovers everywhere!!!

Am I wrong that ESG is divisive?
Am I wrong that it's a niche?
Am I wrong that there is a real risk that interest in ESG will diminish?
Am I wrong that a more traditional course, with some optional on environmentalism etc, leaves more options open?

Yes, of course it's political, anything that limits capitalism from exploiting the planet which we all share is.

But this is not about righteous environmentalists vs evil polluting corporate overlords. It's much more nuanced than that. This is about a lot of this stuff having a dogmatic, ideologic, not evidence and science-driven, approach.
Again, take nuclear. the only way to net zero is combining renewables with nuclear. Nuclear should be at the core of every ESG strategy. The fact that it's not raises many suspicions.

However, even if you disagree on nuclear, even if you want to avoid all the science and ignore that nuclear France emits so much less than anti-nuclear Germany (from whichever angle you want to look at it from: in total, per person, per kWh), even if you want to ignore all of this, you cannot ignore my points above about the risks of a niche and the benefits of a more generalist course which leaves more options open.

@ParentOfOne
Whilst you make some valid points you have disregarded the importance of passion and interest in a subject. Frankly if the OPs ds is crazy about EE then he is likely to do better than if he were to take a general economics degree. The graduates going in to graduate programmes will have a variety of degrees. Not all will even have an economics degree of any sort. If indeed it turns out that the OPs interest in EE waned or the field shrinks, an EE degree from a very good university is not going to put him in some lesser position unless he is specifically going for a job that specifically requires a general economics degree. Most don't.

@biglipslittleblips You are right, passion is very very important. But:

• I don't question the importance of passion. I question that, at such a young age, a teenager may truly know that their passion is in such a narrow niche. It's unlikely to be a fully informed decision.
• If you compare the curriculum of this undergraduate course https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/undergraduate/bsc-environment-and-sustainable-development-with-economics#programme-content with something more standard, it's not too different from a generic Bachelor in Economics + some optional modules https://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/undergraduate/bsc-economics#programme-content
• So my advice isn't not to follow your passion. It is to choose a broader course which gives you more options: if your passion really is that, the broader course can probably get you 90% there. If it turns out to be something else, you can have more doors open

This is my two cents. Then, of course, it's no skin off my nose whether the OP's child does something completely different!

In general I'd say it's useful to compare different views as that can help form your own.

DS had friends who've done the BSc in environment and sustainable development with economics and they've all gone on to have successful careers. It teaches the standard micro, macro and metrics but it's just that more of the courses are in the geography department than the economics department.

PS It also helps to try to be tactical. Sometimes there can be courses which are fairly similar but with different acceptance rates.

It might be worth looking at jobs she might want to do after and work back for best first degree. Within civil service this is a specialist role and it mentions GES which has a graduate scheme which could be a stepping stone to this role and requires 50% economics in first degree or more. This one is in Wales, a lot may be London based for civil service.

https://cais.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-ext/brand-7/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/1636-Head-of-Climate-Economics/en-GB

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/assistant-economist-recruitment#about-the-scheme

I do think some teenagers know exactly what they want to do and stick to it but others can change their minds a lot or not really have that much idea about careers as they are very young still. If it were my DD I would advise her to do a general economics degree first but mine is a changer of what she wants to do, a more focused child the more environmental degree could be the better option especially if interest is more environment than economics.

Not Northern (or buzzy?) but Exeter's Flexible Combined Honours would allow her to combine Economics and Sustainability, as would Birmingham's Arts and Sciences.

If willing to look at Scotland (and 4 years), then Glasgow and St. Andrews are also options.