Which A Level to drop

[Madmoomoo]

My DD is in year 12 studying Fine Art, Maths, Economics and History. She is hoping to study Architecture at university.

I’ve emailed a few universities asking whether Maths A Level is essential and haven’t really had a straight answer. Except Bath and Loughborough that do require Maths and/or physics the others are far more generic.

Her weakest subject is definitely Maths, she is in a class where everyone else did Further Maths GCSE and the pace is fast. I think she’d be looking at a B whereas she would be looking at A/A* for the other 3.

Has anyone got any experience of doing architecture without maths or physics A Level?

At the moment she won’t consider dropping anything but she is working really long hours and I just don’t think it’s sustainable.

Economics or History would be better to drop as they’re not as closely linked. But, if she’s struggling in Maths, that makes the most sense - the best options are typically the ones you’ll get the highest grade on.

Can she go on UCAS, pull the list of places that offer architecture and then from there pull off

• the ones she couldn’t go to if she dropped maths
• the ones she couldn’t go go with a dropped grade in Maths

And see if that helps her make her decision? I don’t know for architecture specifically, but if she can see she’s got plenty of choices if she drops maths that might bring her round to the idea.

I’ve pulled this from the entry requirements for Architecture at Edinburgh as an example.
whilst they say there are no specific A levels required I’m not sure I believe them!!

Required subjects: A levels: no specific A Level subjects required. GCSEs: English at C or 4 and Mathematics at A or 7, or Mathematics and Physics both at B or 6, or Mathematics, Science plus Additional Science (or science double award) at B or 6. Evidence of artistic ability is normally required at either A Level or GCSE.

I thought maths A level was needed for a lot of architecture courses, should be easy enough to find on the subject entry requirements for the universities she's interested in.

The universities that she is interested in do not specify Maths A Level. The requirements look like the one above from Edinburgh. However, I want to know if this is truly the case.

I know how to find the published requirements which is why I emailed the universities directly to ask their preference.

What uni shows the top five A levels taken by those on the courses. I randomly picked six (ranging from Oxford Brooks to Cambridge) and every single one had Art & Design A level as most popular, followed by Math. Math was the second most popular A level, whether a stated requirement or not. In fact Edinburgh (seventh I looked at) was the only one who had more taking Math than Art! So I'd say Math is pretty essential! The pic is for Edinburgh.

I think you are right in that although it's not a named requirement it might be hard without it. Maybe with dropping one of the others she would have more time to work on and consolidate the maths?

I would drop the economics. 4 is too many with art in the mix. Not sure if a B in maths will mean many courses are ruled out. Obviously the ultra competitive ones like Bath but other unis are available. I would also strongly suggest she might like something like Labdscape architecture. The course at Sheffield is first rate and requires ABB. Maybe think about related courses which are also very worthwhile. Sheffield is ranked 1 for architecture in the Complete uni guide so it’s department is first rate and this makes Landscape architecture a “bargain” there!

Meant to add: or look at Architecture and Planning. Some very good ex polys offer great architecture courses. Certainly Oxford Brooks and UWE. They won’t want AAA. Also Newcastle: AAA for architecture but ABB for architecture and urban planning. Obviously check the details and I’d also look at what went into clearing if you can.

I work at an architecture and planning consultancy as a town planner. We are sponsoring someone at the moment to do the RIBA apprenticeship. She started as an office junior and then started getting basic CAD training etc.

IMO it's a much better way of doing it as you get on the job experience.

Is this something she would consider? You don't need all the a levels for this.

@wheo How long to get qualified? Architecture is 7 years. How long is the apprenticeship and how long to be a chartered architect? Architecture jobs are competitive. Is it a very slow route?

You do Level 6 architectural assistant, equivalent to RIBA part 1

Then can move onto level 7 architect, equivalent to RIBA part 2 and 3.

Both take 48 months each, so is 8 years in total. But imo worth it if you've got time on your side. As working in a practice the whole way through gives you the edge.

@TizerorFizz and yes it is competitive. She started as an office junior just to get some experience (making tea etc) so has had to work for it

Just not sure how many apprenticeships there are. Ok if you get a local job and they offer this but moving away if you live in the country could be difficult. Our architect friends seem to find work a bit yoyo. Some have list jobs too. Seems a bit precarious at times! The landscape architects all seem to love their work though.

A student form my school has just gone to Edinburgh to do Architecture, for your interest. No maths A level. IIRC it was Art, Eng Lit and politics.

If they say they don’t require specific A Levels, then they aren’t keeping a secret set of entry requirements - that is the case.

A more reasonable question to ask departments (not admissions) would be if most students have maths, would you be at a disadvantage without maths? Are there catch up classes etc if you’re struggling?

The DD is doing maths. Some architecture schools are more concept/ arty. Some are more maths. Maths is very helpful for architecture in general. Economics is not. The key stat is what most successful candidates offer. RIBA even produces maths resources for schools. It’s undeniable that maths is a great help.

I think you've had quite a few good suggestions. I would drop Economics and double down on study for the Maths, given it is such an important component in many of the degrees offering Architecture.

Landscape Architecture is more about actual physical gardening, soil, and ecological questions than being concerned with constructing buildings, so possibly not a good suggestion.

Thank you all some really useful information here. I agree that it’s economics that will have to go. She doesn’t want to consider it yet though.
it’s definitely architecture rather than landscape that she’s interested in. She’s fantastic at art in particular drawing buildings and structures.

Maybe consider getting a tutor to give her some help with the Maths? If she's struggling with it now, will it affect her ability to cope with the architecture course? She might be reluctant to drop anything now because she's worried about coping with the Maths, so if you give that a boost, it might make the decision easier?

I think she would be better to drop to 3 and get stronger grades in 3. The sensible one to drop if she is certain about architecture would be Economics or History unless she is really struggling in Maths. What GCSE grade did she get in Maths? Maths I think does build so if she's getting behind already it's quite important to make sure she can catch up and also to work out if she will definitely be fine going forward, dropping the fourth should free up time.

She got an 8 in maths. She’s not behind as such it’s just that she was 2nd set maths at GCSE with no intention of doing A Level so the topics they are currently covering most of the class are already comfortable with.

We have brought in a tutor and she goes to her teacher at lunch to practice.

She’ll be fine. She will be working (some for free in her own time) as a junior architect 50 hours a week fairly soon. She may as well get used to it. It will pay off in her early 30s.

She should be fine with Maths then.

@OnceAndFutureMum You are joking? It’s much more about planning. Gardening? However if architecture doesn’t work out, it’s an option. The ones we know do very well.

According to dds friend you do NOT need maths for architecture
She's at Cardiff doing an architecture degree