Where to apply for maths?

[Joltek]

My dd is predicted 3A* and a B with the B in further maths. I assume there’s no point her applying anywhere that asks for an A in f maths like Warwick or bath? Any idea on the best places to apply with these grades? She’s predicted an A in EPQ as well. How low should her insurance uni be?

It’s still worth applying imo to somewhere aspirational- she is only one grade down there so if she likes one of Warwick, Bath, Imperial etc.

Make sure she has realistic ones too. Suggest an insurance of maybe AAA?

4 A levels plus an EPQ is a lot tho. Any way she can drop the EPQ to focus on pulling the FM up to an A?

As far as other unis go, it depends on lots of factors but I would think most RG unis would be happy with her PGs. Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Birmingham all good unis. I’ve not checked their offers but once you are out of COWI I don’t think it matters if you are at Leeds or Manchester (apart from factors specific to you, like course modules, campus, cost of accommodation and distance from home).

Neighbour’s DC went to Exeter. There’s probably a decent choice just below top tier. DC did 3 A levels including FM.

My friends dc is studying math at Lancaster they had offers from Durham but didn’t quite meet the grade needed.

We visited Bristol and Exeter, and also looked at Lancaster, Southampton, Swansea, Cardiff and Surrey which have lower typical offers iirc.

Not sure it's worth applying to Warwick - I think they want A star in FM plus the TMUA test is now compulsory for Warwick

Is it worth getting the grade up by any chance?

She’s already finished the EPQ as they make them do it in their first year. The predicted grades are set and none negotiable. I wouldn’t be surprised if she pulled the f maths up a bit. Thinking of Sheffield, York, Nottingham, maybe Birmingham or Leeds? I want the best for her but also don’t want her out of her depth. No idea what we’re doing really tho.

Hi@Joltek after I posted above I looked up the grades for a masters in maths at Leeds (picking at random) and there are different options depending if you do FM but basically as far as I could see it was AAA so it's well within your DD's PG.

Is she doing the TMUA? Agree Warwick want A-star in FM so probs not worth it but Bath is A in FM.

The other unis you mention are all excellent so really it's down to preference - big city (Leeds, Brum, Sheffield, Bristol), campus (Nottingham, Brum, York), big campus in a town or small city (Lancaster, Loughborough). Also how far from home does she want to be? Is she looking at London or Scotland or not?

Her PGs are excellent tbh. Mate of DS's went to Bath or maths and I think he got a B in FM but maybe it was an A. Defo not an A star tho.

She’s ruled out London and Scotland as she doesn’t think she’d like London living and Scotland is too far from us. We live near Cambridge and she thinks about 3 hours train ride is her cut off although still wondering about Manchester which is a little further. Think she’s going to do all the extra tests, MAT, TMUA and STEP as she figures will be good practice and she doesn’t have to reveal them if she doesn’t do well. Hope we are right about that.

Saying she might be out of her depth and then doing a load of tests most unis don’t want seems odd. Why pile on pressure? There’s really nothing wrong with the unis you have thought about. The tests need more work, so why not put the effort in to whet she’s actually studying? Accept it’s not COWI and look at next tier down. That’s still very decent!

You might want to look at Loughborough as it’s not that far away. Bristol is highest ranked of the ones you mention at 11 and Surrey the lowest at 36 so you have a good spread. Loughborough is 16. Complete uni guide rankings. However all are decent. There’s also Newcastle. Easy enough to get to on the train from Cambridge.

I am not a Maths expert but have DC who took FM and were interested in Maths at uni (though did not follow that path). When they investigated, universities below the very top tier typically had a round 50% of entrants who had taken FM, so those without FM or possibly grades below A in FM were accommodated by the pace set in the first year at university. There is lots of choice, which is great.

Perhaps a discussion with school or college about why they are predicting a B in FM would be helpful? If they feel, for example, with good logic, that pure maths is not/is unlikely to be your DD's forte, that indicates courses with a high pure maths content and/or cohort displaying confidence in pure maths are courses to be wary of. Equally, it might be that the EPQ was a time sink in Y12 and Y13 may prove to be a period when practice time increases and confidence grows, and so competitive entry courses may actually be perfectly sensible options, but you would need to ensure registration deadlines for any relevant tests have not been missed.

U of Bath does offer on a grade B at FM for their BSc Maths, Stats and Data Science course; this is because they are looking for strong interest in statistics and recognise that strong grades in FM typically need strong performance in core pure maths, which is not everyone's cup of tea. However, you do need to hit Astar in Maths, and you will need to demonstrate stats and data science are areas of genuine interest, and there are pure maths modules to pass whether you like it or not. This leads me on to say that you can have exposure to maths and 'dilute' it in 'Maths &' or Maths with' courses.

It would be unusual to attempt to sit TMUA, MAT and STEP and each, ideally, require their own pre-test practice. The TMUA has undergone recent re-jigging (so check the TMUA website for latest position); I think your DD will have already missed the registration deadline for the first wave of TMUA but (I think and without cross-checking) be able to register for the January test. However, the result from that test will not be available until after the prior consideration deadline in late January and so could not be used to decide on the five UCAS choices. Sitting the TMUA will, however, give a pre-A level sense of where they sit within the top end of the potential maths cohort. My DC used it is that way to finesse choices.

Manchester, Bristol, Bath, Lancaster, Birmingham, Leeds, cardiff, exeter york are all worth looking at. Warwick might also be worth a try - they tend to be generous with conditional offers but ask for specific grades/scores in the supplementary exams.
Focus on pulling the FM grade above a B. STEP is likely to be a bridge too far and not a good use of time/energy - it's very much for people heading for A-star in FM and possibly demoralising for those that aren't.
Don't worry too much about how low the "insurance" needs to be. Unis outside the top 10 mostly have places in clearing for maths (or have done the last 2 years), though some get snapped up fairly fast.

My Dd applied to Sheffield, Bristol, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Newcastle to do maths. Her predicted grades (which she achieved) were A* in maths, A in further maths, plus As in biology and physics.

Sheffield, Liverpool, Newcastle all wanted A(in maths),B,B
Bristol wanted A*,A,A which had to include further maths
Edinburgh didn't make an offer

Dd chose Sheffield and so far is loving it, but I suspect that is more the socialising than the course!

Thanks - I will look further into whether she ought to be doing these extra tests. I’ve left it to her really as I don’t know much about them. We aren’t particularly bothered about the higher ranked unis. Just struggling to find somewhere that suits her really.

@Joltek It’s only the higher ranked unis that require the tests. I would concentrate on the A levels and not add to what she has to learn if do. There are great unis just below the very top tier so think about visiting them. Look at Complete University guide for a league table for maths.

You say you’re struggling - what’s her wish list apart from the three hour train journey? Lots of the well rated RG and RG+ unis (Bath, Lancaster, Loughborough) are within reach

I did a bit of research for my son who also wants to do maths and is looking at Warwick etc., using the new UCAS tool which shows you actual grades of others on the course.

For Warwick, Bath, Bristol and Durham, the most common grade for students on the course is 3 x A star, and the lowest grade for Warwick is 2 A star and an A. The others have marginally lower "lowest grades accepted", down to Bristol at AAB.

I have assumed that in the case of the most common grades, one of the A stars is further maths - I'm sure that'll be the case for an awful lot of students anyway. And with that in mind I'm asking myself whether one of those places is the right fit for someone without at least an A in further maths, competing for a 1st or 2:1 against the straight A star students.

Everyone is different, but I do think it could be a bit miserable to be the bottom of the pack (acknowledging that someone has to be...)

I think, given your location (I live round there too and know about the crap roads and transport links!) your more Midlands based suggestions are the best . Trainwise, I'd be looking at paces you can get to from Peterborough (which would allow you to look at York, too) and road wise, Birmingham is a relatively easy journey. I, personally, think Bath is a horrible journey from Cambridge.

We have been to see York and Nottingham, both of which she liked but not able to see much of the math department at York. We visited Loughborough a while ago with her older sibling and she wasn’t keen but maybe worth another look now older. We are going to see Sheffield in a couple of weeks so we can have an idea of a non campus uni. We live in a very rural area so everywhere will be a big change. Booked into see Birmingham in November but feel like we are running out of time and nothings really much clearer. Was hoping she would fall in love with somewhere to make the decision easier.
Atm it’s looking like maybe Birmingham, Nottingham, York, Leeds and Sheffield for her 5 choices but aware these are all quite competitive places and hope we are doing everything right.

That looks like a really good set of choices tbh.

@JoltekAlthough Sheffield is not technically a campus uni it is confined to one area of the city. Yes, students are free to roam anywhere but it’s not spread all over. Ditto Leeds. Both feel less constrained than say Loughborough or Warwick or Lancaster. Very easy access to everything you could possibly want.

Agree with @Piggywaspushed all very good options. I’m sure with her excellent PGs she will get offers. She might find offer holder days in the spring help her decide.

I suspect Maths departments all look pretty similar on the inside (York's is in a nice location on the older (West) campus). Probably more important is the drop-in support offered by academics and more senior students; my DC found the 'chat to a maths student' online facility on most uni websites useful for exploring that.

Using the new UCAS tool showing typical achieved grades for Maths BSc, the order is Notts AstarAA, Brum AAA, Leeds AAB, York ABB and Sheff ABB (if I am scanning correctly - do check). So that might help work out relative strength of maths cohort and indicate which could be possible insurance candidates.