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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

University: weekly money needed as 'extra' in 1st year (catered accomm)

179 replies

GLVF · 16/09/2024 12:16

Eldest went off to uni for first time yesterday. We briefly discussed what we'll give her as an allowance to live off for extras, but I'm wondering if this may need revising.

She's in catered accommodation fairly close to campus. So, the main costs I foresee are:
• 5x sandwich-type lunch (Mon–Fri lunches are her only uncatered meals)/occasional snack or coffee out (we did pack her off with snacks)
• evening drinking/clubs (but she's not a huge drinker)
• possible bus travel (unlikely, as fairly central to uni/shops)
• very occasional extras, like haircut/cinema.

We plan to help her separately with printing/laundry/books costs, so I'm really focusing on main weekly expenses throughout term-time. What kind of ballpark are we thinking in the modern world to help her start to budget without leaving her hungry/deprived?! Are there many things I haven't thought of?

Our thinking was – very simplistically – £5 x 5 for sandwich + snack/coffee during day, and £15 x 3 for nights out, which equates to £70/wk. It should leave a little extra, potentially, if she's careful, as she rarely drinks more than 2-3 drinks, and has plenty of snacks for the time being.

Of course this will depend on family circumstances and location of uni, but a rough idea from those in the know would be helpful. She's been earning a little (waitressing) throughout sixth form and is usually fairly careful with money.

Thanks!

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 19/09/2024 19:20

I give my son £125 a month, and that’s for food too. His dad pays his fee’s and accomodation. He has his childhood savings and some compensation he received for contracting EColi as a child, plus he worked summer 1 and summer 2 so has over 10k so I’m not supplementing his nights out. He spends around £30-35 a week on food. I also pay for his Ubers as he was mugged, and I don’t want him getting public transport alone in the dark.

TizerorFizz · 19/09/2024 19:45

We gave ours £450 a month in catered.Years ago, Your figures look very low @GLVF . My DD did lots of clubs, other dc joined sports clubs and going out for £15? Maybe but some uni events will be more than this. DD also bought clothes. Went to visit friends and came home at the end of term. Uni life is for living - not just existing. Plus they sometimes miss meals in hall. They need a float. They might have gigs and the cinema to go
to as well.

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 17:40

Walkaround · 19/09/2024 19:13

Once again, you are either failing to comprehend, or failing to engage and thus deliberately picking on sentences and woefully misinterpreting their meaning, @Abbylikeswine. It is not reasonable to expect someone to work for 80 hours on academic work and then work a great many more hours on top of that in paid work. As for repaying loans, pre-the recent changes, less than 30% of student loans were being fully repaid. Do you not understand the difference between a normal loan and a student loan? Tbh, I think you are full of shit and worked nowhere near 80-hours a week on your academic studies, and if you did do, plus work many more hours on top in paid employment, then I feel sorry for you, because you have said your parents could afford to help, but didn’t and there is no way you can pretend you also had time for a social life or any creative hobbies or pastimes, unless you are planning to claim there are more than 24 hours in a day, or that it is reasonable not to go to sleep at least once in every 24-hour period.

I also think you lack a grasp of reality and are spoiled when you seem to think it's absolutelty impossible to work during Univeristy.

Everyone I know worked during University

I didn't say that my parents could afford to help me.

We were over the threshold for the full maintenence loan, but like a lot of other families, being over the thresold for the full maintenece loan doesnt mean they could afford to help me. They had a lot of other financial commitments.

I didn't expect them to give me anything either. I had turned 18. I was an adult. Everyone else I knew was working to pay for Uni too.

I've a lot of cousins that are younger than me. One of them has just finished a degree in accountancy. She worked as a receptionist at a hotel every weekend during her degree.

You said that your University course was particulary intense. If you couldnt work at all through term time, as you said your course was more intense than other people's. Did you work at all through University? Did you work in the summer?

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:01

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 17:40

I also think you lack a grasp of reality and are spoiled when you seem to think it's absolutelty impossible to work during Univeristy.

Everyone I know worked during University

I didn't say that my parents could afford to help me.

We were over the threshold for the full maintenence loan, but like a lot of other families, being over the thresold for the full maintenece loan doesnt mean they could afford to help me. They had a lot of other financial commitments.

I didn't expect them to give me anything either. I had turned 18. I was an adult. Everyone else I knew was working to pay for Uni too.

I've a lot of cousins that are younger than me. One of them has just finished a degree in accountancy. She worked as a receptionist at a hotel every weekend during her degree.

You said that your University course was particulary intense. If you couldnt work at all through term time, as you said your course was more intense than other people's. Did you work at all through University? Did you work in the summer?

Edited

I don’t think you have actually read any of my posts properly, nor reviewed tour own. At no point have I said it’s impossible to work during university - in fact, I have said the opposite. I didn’t even say my course (30 years ago…) was intense, as I haven’t said anything whatsoever about my degree on this thread. If you are interested, however, it was actually the case that the university specified that term time work was prohibited and I could have been “rusticated” for doing it (excluded from the university for a year) if they had found out. I therefore worked during the university holidays, instead. What I am taking issue with is your response to other posters and the obvious fact that you are not reading anything anyone else posts properly, nor keeping track of the various things you have yourself posted, @Abbylikeswine .

TizerorFizz · 20/09/2024 19:03

Everyone my DDs knew didn’t work. Neither did they spend 80 hours a week studying. They didn’t need to. DH did working days at around 35 hours for engineering. Students can work if they want but many prefer not to but might in the holidays at home. Working at uni doesn’t guarantee anyone a better job.

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:09

NB for the avoidance of doubt, “during university” means, imo, at any time during the course of your degree, not just during term time.

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:34

Another point to note about Oxford and Cambridge is that, with shorter terms and many of the colleges able to offer subsided, term time only accommodation for the duration of your degree, students can save a huge amount of money on accommodation compared to other universities. My ds’s accommodation bill at his college is less than half the costs of friends’ accommodation in halls of residence in a wide range of other universities elsewhere, which saves thousands of pounds per year. That, alongside the fact Oxford and Cambridge make it patently clear they do not think it appropriate or possible to put the amount of effort into your degree that they expect you to if you do paid work during term time and they are willing to help you financially to enable you to avoid it, militates against anyone being foolish enough to do so, regardless of their “human rights.” Why, in those circumstances, would you go against the explicit advice of the university you have chosen?

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 19:45

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:34

Another point to note about Oxford and Cambridge is that, with shorter terms and many of the colleges able to offer subsided, term time only accommodation for the duration of your degree, students can save a huge amount of money on accommodation compared to other universities. My ds’s accommodation bill at his college is less than half the costs of friends’ accommodation in halls of residence in a wide range of other universities elsewhere, which saves thousands of pounds per year. That, alongside the fact Oxford and Cambridge make it patently clear they do not think it appropriate or possible to put the amount of effort into your degree that they expect you to if you do paid work during term time and they are willing to help you financially to enable you to avoid it, militates against anyone being foolish enough to do so, regardless of their “human rights.” Why, in those circumstances, would you go against the explicit advice of the university you have chosen?

Edited

You wrote "Why, in those circumstances, would you go against the explicit advice of the university you have chosen?" And take a job

The obvious answer is - when they need money

Again, in the real world not every student is funded by their parents.

Just because a student goes to Oxford or Cambridge University doesn't mean that they are loaded with money.

Last year, I was working at an Educational summer camp in the Cambridge area.

There were a lot of Cambridge University students working there aswell. They were current University students, and they were working on the camp in their summer holidays between Univeristy.

I got chatting to one student. He told me that he had a bad upbringing. His parents had been drug addicts, and then he had been put into Foster care. I'm not sure exactly how much of a loan he got, but it did sound like his Foster parents didn't have much to give him, and he told me that he worked during term time , to fund himself through Cambridge University.

mugglewump · 20/09/2024 19:49

MalbecandToast · 16/09/2024 16:02

I calculated it on the gov website and it said she was entitled to only just over £4000 for the year? I guess I could have got that wrong but I am pretty sure that was what it said?

Just re-did it and it says 4767 per year maintenance loan, so defo not enough for even accomodation let alone anything else. I think I will need to take a second job part time to help her.

Edited

Why doesn't she take a part-time job? Or a maintenance loan? Let's face it, most kids will never repay it all and it gets written off after 30 years.

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:59

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 19:45

You wrote "Why, in those circumstances, would you go against the explicit advice of the university you have chosen?" And take a job

The obvious answer is - when they need money

Again, in the real world not every student is funded by their parents.

Just because a student goes to Oxford or Cambridge University doesn't mean that they are loaded with money.

Last year, I was working at an Educational summer camp in the Cambridge area.

There were a lot of Cambridge University students working there aswell. They were current University students, and they were working on the camp in their summer holidays between Univeristy.

I got chatting to one student. He told me that he had a bad upbringing. His parents had been drug addicts, and then he had been put into Foster care. I'm not sure exactly how much of a loan he got, but it did sound like his Foster parents didn't have much to give him, and he told me that he worked during term time , to fund himself through Cambridge University.

Edited

The obvious answer is, he should speak to his college, because as stated, they provide financial help, particularly to people who have been brought up in care, in order for students to avoid doing paid work in term time.

lollylo · 20/09/2024 20:00

Africa2go · 18/09/2024 21:46

@Abbylikeswine the two main factors you need to consider are (a) you probably weren't paying £10k in tuition fees plus £5-10k as a maintenance loan (not a grant) when you were working through term time (so if, worst case scenario, you fell behind / failed / had to repeat a year, there weren't such financial consequences as there are now) and (b) there hadn't been a COVID crisis where thousands of retail / hospitality jobs went up in smoke and there were far fewer students (so it's not quite as easy as it was for you and lots of other uni students to walk into restaurant jobs and the like).

I'm not disagreeing with you that working your way through uni was the norm (it was to me too) but it's a different landscape now.

Completely agree. Some uni cities have 10s of thousands of students and they can’t get term
time jobs

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 20:02

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:59

The obvious answer is, he should speak to his college, because as stated, they provide financial help, particularly to people who have been brought up in care, in order for students to avoid doing paid work in term time.

Although I have just noticed you say it was a summer camp, so you’re talking bollocks again, @Abbylikeswine, as that is not term time, so exactly the sort of employment Oxbridge students will be looking for.

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:05

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 19:59

The obvious answer is, he should speak to his college, because as stated, they provide financial help, particularly to people who have been brought up in care, in order for students to avoid doing paid work in term time.

Maybe he knows his circumstances better than you?

Maybe you don't know what people go through. Its astounding that you think that everyone is magically just given enough money. And that they don't have to work.

Maybe the university don't provide enough financial help for him to live off?

He was just one student that I talked to. He was the one that was brought up in care.

The other Cambridge University students that I talked to, they werent all brought up in care, they also ALL worked!

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:07

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 20:02

Although I have just noticed you say it was a summer camp, so you’re talking bollocks again, @Abbylikeswine, as that is not term time, so exactly the sort of employment Oxbridge students will be looking for.

Edited

Go back and try to read what I wrote again.

I said I was working with them in a summer camp. Yes.

Do you then see the last part of my post where I wrote the words "he told me that he worked during TERM TIME to fund himself".

They worked during the summer, AND during term time.

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:18

@walkaround I've attached a post from a previous Cambridge student on the student room website.

He said that Cambridge University specify that you should not work during term time, but that this is just advice, it is not monitored or enforced,
as many Cambridge students work in hospitality (bars, restaurants), and other jobs during term time.

University: weekly money needed as 'extra' in 1st year (catered accomm)
Walkaround · 20/09/2024 20:30

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:18

@walkaround I've attached a post from a previous Cambridge student on the student room website.

He said that Cambridge University specify that you should not work during term time, but that this is just advice, it is not monitored or enforced,
as many Cambridge students work in hospitality (bars, restaurants), and other jobs during term time.

Edited

a) It is monitored and enforced if it is affecting the quality of the student’s work sufficient for the college to notice.
b) There is a difference between what a student needs and what they may want, in order to have a nicer room, or to be able to join more expensive clubs or societies, or social events.
c) There is a difference between what someone may be entitled to and what they ask for.
d) Tbh, I admit I don’t really count working for the college during term time while an undergraduate as work, because it’s nothing like a job, generally ad hoc, every so often, and more another way colleges subsidise the less well off. They can also be very generous employers of their students in the holidays - I worked as a college scout one summer (the Oxford name for a cleaner), cleaning conference guests’ rooms, because it paid more than double what I would have earned doing other typical student holiday work outside the college.

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:49

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 20:30

a) It is monitored and enforced if it is affecting the quality of the student’s work sufficient for the college to notice.
b) There is a difference between what a student needs and what they may want, in order to have a nicer room, or to be able to join more expensive clubs or societies, or social events.
c) There is a difference between what someone may be entitled to and what they ask for.
d) Tbh, I admit I don’t really count working for the college during term time while an undergraduate as work, because it’s nothing like a job, generally ad hoc, every so often, and more another way colleges subsidise the less well off. They can also be very generous employers of their students in the holidays - I worked as a college scout one summer (the Oxford name for a cleaner), cleaning conference guests’ rooms, because it paid more than double what I would have earned doing other typical student holiday work outside the college.

Edited

B) "there is a difference between what a student needs and wants, in order to have a nicer room."

Its not about a nicer room. It's about surviving.

I got a small bit of a loan when I went to Uni which paid for some of my accommodation. It was only enough to cover some of my accommodation.

I then worked to pay for food while I was at Uni.

I am not unusual.

Lots of parents do not give their children any money for Uni.

Lots of teens come from different circumstances. Lets take one parent families.

Lots of teens come from one parent/ divorced/seperated families.

So even if their single parent Earns over the threshold for the student to get the full maintenece loan, the single parent cannot afford to give the student any money, as she has big financial expenses.

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:57

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 20:30

a) It is monitored and enforced if it is affecting the quality of the student’s work sufficient for the college to notice.
b) There is a difference between what a student needs and what they may want, in order to have a nicer room, or to be able to join more expensive clubs or societies, or social events.
c) There is a difference between what someone may be entitled to and what they ask for.
d) Tbh, I admit I don’t really count working for the college during term time while an undergraduate as work, because it’s nothing like a job, generally ad hoc, every so often, and more another way colleges subsidise the less well off. They can also be very generous employers of their students in the holidays - I worked as a college scout one summer (the Oxford name for a cleaner), cleaning conference guests’ rooms, because it paid more than double what I would have earned doing other typical student holiday work outside the college.

Edited

It does bring up the point though, why are Cambridge University against paid work during term time... except if the students work for Cambridge University.

Then they're okay with the students doing paid work during term time...

If Cambridge Uni are against paid work because they think students won't have enough time to devote to study, why do they then say its okay for students to do paid work for Cambridge Uni?

It seems like they just want to have control over students

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:58

Anyway I've talked about this enough. I'll let other parents come on and talk about how much they give their teens at Uni, or if their teens work instead

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 22:02

Abbylikeswine · 20/09/2024 20:57

It does bring up the point though, why are Cambridge University against paid work during term time... except if the students work for Cambridge University.

Then they're okay with the students doing paid work during term time...

If Cambridge Uni are against paid work because they think students won't have enough time to devote to study, why do they then say its okay for students to do paid work for Cambridge Uni?

It seems like they just want to have control over students

Edited

@Abbylikeswine - Yes, they will pay students in term time to do “work” that might well in other universities often be voluntary and unpaid (eg talking to school pupils whose schools don’t normally send anyone to those universities), or which only involves very limited hours. And yes, of course it is a way of controlling how much paid work the student is doing.

As for care leavers, I specifically pointed out already that a college is not knowingly going to allow a care leaver to work during term time because they genuinely ”need” to, it will happen because they did not talk to the college about their genuine financial need. And yes, of course there are plenty of parents who cannot help out, despite their child not getting the full loan, even if they want to. However, you have clearly said in previous posts (although are now apparently trying to backtrack), that your parents could have helped but did not and that you did not expect them to, even though they could. You have also said that it is reasonable for a student to work well in excess of 80 hours a week throughout university. I disagree that that is reasonable and, from my perspective as a parent think it would be horrible if I was in a position to help my child thrive at university, even if that required me to take on more paid work myself, but actively chose not to, and instead watched my child struggle to make ends meet while a student. Not to help in this context when you actually could if you wanted to is the attitude of someone who does not approve of their child’s choices, or doesn’t understand them (eg doesn’t really buy into the idea of going to university instead of going straight into a full time, paid job, so views it as self-indulgent twaddle). I think the majority of parents would want to help their children flourish if they could and that this does not stop at 18.

Walkaround · 20/09/2024 22:43

Although in summary, I agree with @Abbylikeswine that not all parents do help their student children out, even if their children do not get the full maintenance loan, and not all parents can help their children out. I just don’t agree that you are unusually lucky if your parents want to help you out, and disagree that only a tiny, lucky minority have parents who are able to help. I think the majority of parents contribute what they feel they can afford financially. As a result, I do not think there really is a standard amount that can be suggested as a reasonable contribution, as every situation is different.

I do think a lot of families are taken by surprise by the actual costs, though. One of my ds’s friends rejected his university offer when his family found out how much university life away from home would cost (after A-level results day) - they had never expected it to cost that much and, as neither parent went to university themselves, didn’t really try to get their heads around it until it was too late, because there had never been an assumption there that he would want to or need to go to university when he was older, but there was the assumption that should he want to, it would be more affordable than it is. Ultimately, they decided the cost was not worth it (and couldn’t afford the upfront costs, after which he panicked and, instead of deferring so he could earn some more money for a year, he just dropped the idea of university altogether).

DancingNotDrowning · 21/09/2024 08:51

@Walkaround that’s sad.

I've posted on a lot of these threads in the last few years since I’ve had DC at university because it is expensive and very hard for the DC of those parents who can’t or won’t help especially when the whole system is predicated on parents supporting them.

there’s also a huge difference in costs from uni to uni. London, Bristol, Edinburgh, Exeter Durham might cost almost as much as double in rent/cost of living as Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds and York.

Alwaysanotherwine · 21/09/2024 09:13

i think the fundamental difference is that kids don’t have to move away

majority of students could commute so living away is a luxury

that’s why it shouldn’t be presumed by the government that parents should pay

we rent uni accommodation and it’s non stop partying - these kids can party but too busy to work?

the reality is from these threads is that parents are not paying the ‘basics’ they are being asked to fund a nice holly 3 years of fun!!

great if they can afford it but the presumption that parents should do it is unfair. DD has a degree appreciship starting in jan which was our choice - starts on 30k plus with no debt

if she’d have wanted uni she’d have had to stay at home - we are both professionals but wouldn’t commit to paying £500+ a month for fun

(well may have for something like medicine or dentistry but not for some random degree with no chance of well paid job at the end)

we have other kids

id rather give the the money for travel

WombatChocolate · 21/09/2024 09:34

Like most things, there are a variety of experiences. Any individual poster, thinking about the people they know and their own experiences, has a narrow picture and on the basis of that, should t assume they know what all or most do. It is anecdata. And often, whilst individual universities or communities at home might have broadly similar funding experiences, we should remember that university communities can have different demographics and local communities that send kids to uni can have different demographics.

Without doubt, most students are not fully self-supporting beyond their loans and most have a level of family support. That varies from parents paying for everything and there being no loans, to just the odd shop that is bought for them. But most are also giving weekly or monthly or termly funds of varying amounts too.

Access to higher education has broadened, but still less than half of the population go and those from more affluent backgrounds are more likely to go. Many students are from middle class backgrounds, where parents to different degrees have expected to contribute and have been gearing up to that and then do. It is not unusual - and although those students who get parental support are clearly fortunate, they are not unusual in the broader university population. The funding system, based upon parental income, explicitly states that there is an expectation that parents of kids who don’t receive full loans are expected to provide support. And most do, to differing degrees.

It will be the case, that there are groups in society that are increasingly sending their kids to uni, who might not have in the past. Aspiration is high amongst parents and students in some groups which is wonderful. Within some of these groups, parents won’t have the expectation to financially support their kids or won’t have the means. In some communities, teens won’t have the expectation of any family support because that will be the norm amongst their community. And if at uni, people herd together with those from similar backgrounds, it can seem that the experience is the norm, or more widespread than it actually is.

There are wide variations in term time work according to uni. In some unis, most students do work in term time and in others, v few do. Students who lack parental financial support and who work, might feel like a minority at some universities, and totally normal in others.

Of course it’s the case that those with lots of financial support are fortunate. But given that the university population has a higher proportion of kids from affluent backgrounds, they are also not unusual.

Some students might be studying for 60+ hours and also doing lots of hours paid work. Most will be studying for less than this and most who work will be doing a few hours a week.

As has been said upthread, for some students and their families, the idea of student debt and fears of not having enough money are massive barriers to going to uni. Others going feel insecure about their studies and finances and study more than they need and work more paid hours than they need to deal with their insecurities - and for some, this culture of just needing to do more of everything is very real.

I think the disagreements on this thread reflect different cultures and attitudes towards education and funding. Some people are unable to see beyond a very narrow and perhaps not typical experience that they’ve had and struggle to recognise the experience of the majority might be different. But a good number do struggle financially and are willing to study and work paid hours which are not the norm and which show an admirable work ethic, in order to open doors for their futures.

Radionowhere · 21/09/2024 09:38

PinkFrogss · 16/09/2024 14:39

I would reconsider not taking out a maintenance loan, unless she’s likely to repay her loan quickly it won’t really impact how much she repays, the salary deductions would be the same for someone who borrowed £50k vs £100k for example.

She could then have the maintenance loan for spending money, and if you want to you could save towards a house deposit for her with the money you’re saving.

This.