How flexible are grade requirements when applying grades in hand?

[igivein]

DS got CCC. He hasn’t applied anywhere yet because he wanted to take a year off to work and travel.
There are two universities he’s interested in and their offer for his course is BCC (they’re both currently in clearing requiring rather less than he’s got but that’s another story).
After a remark he was 1 mark off a B in one subject - which is really annoying. Along with the fact that if the grade boundaries had stayed the same as last year he would have had ABC…
We’re going to open days for both universities in a couple of weeks and will obviously discuss it with them, but what are people’s thoughts on if they’ll accept him for next year with CCC already attained, or will he likely need to resit one to try and push the grade up?

No one knows unfortunately. It depends on applications and grades achieved by next year group. Has he got an EPQ, some drop a grade for that.
I’d speak to universities he is interested in.
My dc’s friend abandoned her gap her as she knew the grades she got wouldn’t secure her as good an offer for 2025 as she could get in clearing this year.

Hi, OP -

I am a former admissions tutor. I’m glad DS is going to both Open Days, because the answer is …. it depends.

It’s highly relevant that both were in Clearing accepting less than what DS has got. These schools, like the large majority, sound like Recruiting Schools rather than Selecting Schools. IMO they will likely be in Clearing again next year taking less than what he’s got, so it would probably be sensible for them to make him a quick offer.

But sometimes hope springs eternal so discussing the possibility of retakes at Open Day is a good idea. I would also mention being one mark off a B as the referee letter can also speak to that. (I would mention this to the referee when requesting the letter, very politely, eg by thanking the school for their help if relevant). No need to mention the exam mark was reviewed in this conversation

Then the issue is, should a Recruiting School reject someone (or require a resit) for one mark? Fingers crossed and best wishes to DS

No need to mention the mark was reviewed in the Open Day convos, I meant

Thanks @Investinmyself and @poetryandwine . I know it’s all a bit up in the air and who knows, but for 1 (bloody!) mark.
The remark was awful but we felt it had to be done just in case. He was originally three marks short. When the teacher reviewed his papers he could find one mark on each of the three papers that he should have been awarded, but also one mark that he maybe shouldn’t have been. So basically he went up three and down one, is now no further forward but I’m skint!
If it gives you a better idea @poetryandwine , the unis are Herriot Watt and Lincoln.

So IIRC, the teacher’s view of the marking was spot on? That’s impressive.

You can request the referee letter by email and make reference to the whole episode and to the entry requirements, briefly, in a self deprecating way. You did that nicely in your second post. The referee will take it from there.

I would bet that (at least) one of those two will make DS an offer. But TBH, not a vast amount of money.

DS did consider whether to go in through clearing, but a large reason for the gap year was he’s young in the year group (birthday right at the end of August) and he just didn’t feel ‘old enough’ to go to uni, so possibly it might not have gone well if he had.

He should be fine as they are in clearing requiring less than he got.

Are they ucas points offers or grades? If they will take on points he could look to boost his points with some additional courses this year (lifeguard carries ucas points)
I’d be hopeful he’d get offers for grades in hand at one mark off.
Impressive his teacher was spot on!

It’s a bit of both @Investinmyself . The offer is 104 points for both unis, with one specifying a B in maths, which is the one he is one mark off.
He doesn’t have an EPQ because he wanted to do his gold DofE instead, but I don’t think they give points for that any more.

Definitely get referee to stress 1mark off B.
If they will consider points not just from 3 subjects look at everything that carries ucas points, some first aid courses, lifeguard course etc.

Lincoln are very likely to take him, in my experience, they often go to clearing with lower grades.

What course is he wanting to do, that might make a difference?

Thanks @Noideawhatiam
He wants to do either physics or possibly mechanical engineering.

I’ve been having a wander round the UCAS website. First Aid at Work is worth 8 points, which would take him to the requisite 104 points and would come in handy for his climbing instructor stuff.

I live In Lincoln and have a quite a few friends and family who do/have worked at the university.

Knowing what I do, I'd be surprised if they don't take him for one mark off, I suppose he might be unlucky and find they get a lot more applications than usual.

I have a friend who used to work in the physics department, who ran extra maths lessons with some first year students, so I suspect there is a history of taking accepting lower grades.

I'd be reasonably confident if an offer for physics too.

(Only a few years ago dc was accepted onto a Physics degree with Cs in Maths and Physics - at an RG uni....Yes they were clearly desperate!)

I have dealt with engineering at Lincoln as part of one of the colleges that offer their courses. I'd say approach them directly to discuss it.

I know @titchy , physics seems to be a weird one. Standard offers seem to be A*AA or BCC, but then most of them are in clearing seemingly desperate for anyone with pulse! Quite a few RG are in clearing with CCC.
I mean you either need top grades to cope with the work, or you don’t.

Tbf in dc's case they went on to do a Masters and came out with a distinction so A level grades didn't affect the outcome in the end (other than adding a few more grey hairs to my head!)

I’ve known a student in this position who would have got the place if they had missed their offer by one mark (based on that happening to other students in the same position) but when applying with grades in-hand didn’t get an offer, as one grade below the standard offer. Later that course was in Clearing again, but by then they’d decided to go elsewhere.

Not sure it helps OP, but for anyone reading who is considering having a year out and applying with grades in-hand, bear in mind that most predictions (that those yet to sit exams apply with) and wrong - over 80%, with most being too generous. That means that the grades on your application pre-exam are likely to be better grades than most will have if applying post-exams. Often getting the offer is the key…because many will then let someone in as a near-miss, but simply won’t offer in the first place with the lower grades.

All this said, the less competitive the course, the more likely they are to take the applicant who has grades in hand which are very close to the standard offer, if they know that historically they accept that or less. So on this occasion I’d say OP’s son has a v good chance.

For anyone in yr12 who wants to apply for a competitive course at a v popular uni, applying with those likely higher predictions pre-exam is a good idea in my book, unless of course they just don’t know what they want to do. Even v popular courses will often take a near-miss rather than ‘risk’ Clearing, when it’s uncertain if those provisionally offered a place then will actually take it, or if good candidates will emerge and actually convert into bums on seats.

Bear in mind, very popular courses are unlikely to let you defer if you achieve less than standard offer - they take their chances with next year’s cohort instead. But, not so competitive courses might well agree to deferment.

My daughter applied this year with grades in hand BCC. She went through Early Clearing which starts on the 5th July next year.

We learned to take the official grade requirements with a pinch of salt. I suggested she put in applications at places wanting up to BBB although in the end I think she didn't go higher than BBC. She had no trouble getting offers!

Waiting till Results Day clearing will likely increase his chances of getting into a higher offer uni (assuming things work out the same as this year) BUT apart from problems with accommodation it's worth thinking about whether you really want to be in a place where most students have higher grades and where you know you're only there because the uni were desperate to fill the spaces. I've certainly seen a fair amount of bitterness on social media coming from lecturers at lower ranked unis who doubt whether the RGs actually have the capacity to take on all these extra students.

It's really down to your son whether he'd prefer the security of getting a place sorted out early or whether he'd be happy to take a bit of a gamble.

I think it is very likely he'll get an offer given they are accepting his grades in clearing. He definitely should go for it.

I would try to forget about the grade boundaries moving v last year though, those kids sat a different exam so it's just not comparing apples with apples and you'll just get unnecessarily bitter.
Good luck!

It’s highly relevant that both were in Clearing accepting less than what DS has got. These schools, like the large majority, sound like Recruiting Schools rather than Selecting Schools. IMO they will likely be in Clearing again next year taking less than what he’s got, so it would probably be sensible for them to make him a quick offer.

@igivein I don't think this is very good advice (with apologies to @poetryandwine ) The terms Recruiting Schools and Selecting Schools are quite outdated.

And it's wacky times.

There were apparently several medicine degrees in Clearing this year. None of those schools would be regarded as 'recruiting', and yet here we are.

The numbers of applications are down and grade boundaries were reduced from last year.

That's a very good point @WombatChocolate.
My DD applied PQA but with better than predicted grades, which is much less common. The advantage being she has so much less stress.
Offers are a weird thing though and not just made on grades alone (my DD didn't get offers from two despite having grades well above stated requirements).
Be aware that even if offering on points they may specify where those points are from - they may not accept non academic points.

They can be , especially if the gap year is used for related activities, or the course is perhaps not overly competitive and they want a sound guaranteed student.

Is there any reason why he didn't just apply and defer till next yr? is it too late to do that if you're really worried about him getting offers for next yr? it's hard to tell what the landscape will be next yr.