Guardian university rankings out yesterday

[TheJollyCoralEagle]

The Guardian University rankings were published yesterday (The Daily Mail rankings are out today as well, but I don't really want to reference that otherwise this might take a political detour which isn't relevant to the conversation)
The usual subjects are at the top. Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, Durham etc. What is interesting is further down. Established, high ranking globally, Russell Group unis like Newcastle and Nottingham at 62nd and 63rd, but Chichester at 26th and Bolton at 32nd
And then the variation between the league tables. Bolton for example is 108th in the CUG and Chichester at 79th.
I know the Guardian uses different metrics to CUG (and the others) but the rankings must have some relevance to each other?
Some good advice is to go look at the subject league tables but even there, that isn't always useful. My son wants to do Quantity Surveying. Speaking to Quantity Surveyors in practice they generally regard Oxford Brookes as one of the top universities for Quantity Surveying yet Oxford Brookes comes in at 12th on the CUG Quantity Surveying rankings. And for Magic Circle law recruitment or investment banking for example, apparently the vast majority of their recruits come from a handful of targeted top universities, but some other universities feature highly in these relevant subject rankings.
I know rankings aren't important for everyone. Some people just want to go to a university that they like for the experience, the city, their friends are going there, it's close to home etc, but for students concerned about getting a job and having to choose between more than 100 universities it's a bit of a minefield!
I know recruiters aren't supposed to look at which university you went to, so maybe rankings aren't such a big factor in the job market any more, but let's not kid ourselves if rankings/reputation/kudos weren't important most students would be going to Leeds Beckett, Northumbria, LJU or Nottingham Trent to have a great social life!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2024/sep/07/the-guardian-university-guide-2025-the-rankings?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Having a glowing academic CV is never a disadvantage, however much mumsnet tries to say that it might be.

Pretty sure 'mumsnet' says no such thing.

I agree. People are expressing concern that some employers, the NHS springs to mind, seem to be confusing equality of opportunity with equality of outcome.

Hopefully at some point people will wake up and realise that people achieve because they are talented, hard working and motivated, and such people should be valued.

My dd wouldn’t get an offer from a red brick based on projected grades as they wanted straight A’s.

She got the same grades as her friend. Her friend was predicted higher and got the red brick as and they lowered the grade boundaries. No clearing options available. Dd is a bit put out although happy at her uni so far… freshers week!

@mids2019 Ww cannot make everyone equal. Universities are not equal. Pretending they are is just foolish. I think aiming as high as you can is the best investment given the loan situation.

The Sunday Times rankings are out. Cambridge is out of the top 3 for the first time since the rankings were introduced 31 years ago. LSE is top for the first time. I haven't looked at them in detail yet, but wondering what interesting anomalies there will be this time.
Someone with some time on their hands should produce a league table based on all the individual league tables to get a weighted ranking. Probably the most sensible way to make meaning of the league tables.

I see the ST has added a new “People and Planet” category.🤔.

There are a couple of kids in DS was at college with who have had to go to the local Uni.Nothing to do with aspiration or comfort blankets. Everything to do with family financial instability. There was girl who's landlord kicked her family out just before she was making her decision about Uni.
Another said he knew parents won't have the credit score or money to be a guarantor for a student house in the second year or third year.
Money is too tight to afford train fares across the country as well as the extra stuff you need for Uni.Yes you can pick up second hand stuff but it all adds up.

Basically they had to stay at a local Uni because they couldn't afford anything else.

Sorry last post was for @TizerorFizz . I mean I get the point but leaving home whether Uni or otherwise is actually a dream rather than a rite of passage for some.

Interested in the Sunday Times List. There seems more variation then ever in the rankings this year.

People go to their local universities across Europe too. The living away from home right of passage is rather UK centric.

It is a very urban-centric view that poor people must stay at home to go to university.

We live rurally and dd would love to be able to live at home for uni, she says. Accommodation prices are absolutely a rip off and renting privately even more so, and she's sensible. She loves the idea of spending all day learning, with mates plus clubbing and societies but then coming home to her own bed and her dog. Can't say I blame her. Sadly for her she can't do this

So if you are poor and local to Oxford where do you go?

I think the newer universities do use the desire of some young people to live at home or the inability to move out for various reasons to their advantage. Our newer university advertised widely on buses and bill boards for example. RG universities don't.
I think the newer universities thrive on being the 'local' option as well all have ties to our home region. I am from the North East and I am sure there are many that would look to Northumbria as being the place for young geordies. Not so much Newcastle university which has a reputation of being filled with southerners.

I think dd has seen her siblings pay a small fortune for shocking student private accommodation, mouldy, rats, leaking roofs,.disgusting flatmates and all costing 200 a week. It's a scam

No. Its a very middle class view that's its only saddo, non aspirational kids they stay local.

No, it is a very middle class view that poor can students stay at home to go to uni, when that is not an option for many many poor students.

Well, obviously it's a narrow view that doesn't realise some kids with aspirations do 'stay local', and another narrow view that all poor ones can.

I'm not sure narrow views are restricted to the middle classes, and tbh it probably makes little difference what they (we?) - might think. It's got to be more problematic if less privileged families have any sort of 'not for the likes of us' attitude and are overly reassured by misleading league tables into not choosing the best of the options which are available to them.

I think as we go forward and the cost of living crisis lingers, more and more youngsters will look at alternatives. DS has had a gap year and has been labouring for a construction firm. He was offered an apprenticeship with a view to becoming a site manager ( he’s a bright kid not afraid of a bit of physical work and understands the business side) in 12 months he could be earning between 50-70k, they pay 12hrs a day if they work away from home. With those sort of prospects uni seems a bit pointless.

He is academic and everyone in the family goes to uni so it’s his natural progression. But he has an alternative pathway if he can’t find a job post grad. He originally was going to do business at an RG uni but has changed his mind and is now studying a niche vocational course at a non-RG. It is only available as an undergraduate course at a handful of unis, but he could do an MSc at Loughborough to pad out his CV if necessary. Although one of the unis recent graduates has just started working for the New Zealand All Blacks so maybe you don’t need a big name on your CV.

Some of the wealthiest solicitors I know graduated from polytechnics. There is perhaps a tendency for the current younger generation of graduates to wrongly assume that a degree from a top uni is all you need to be successful. So much emphasis is placed on ranks it’s easy to sit back and rely on the reputation of the uni rather than demonstrating your work ethic and ability.
Most universities offer a year in industry for Business, economics and engineering, the sandwich course. Historically, the academic community looked down their noses at such practices, they were the realms of polys. One of the most popular and hardest courses to get into nowadays is computer science. In the 80s it was definitely a poly subject.

I know in my field Bristol was the “elite” but the majority of Bristol graduates were over confident about their ability with no good reason. I actually had a place at Bristol but when I visited the uni I was put off by the opening sentence when they welcomed us “ you are the creme de la crème”. Back then they didn’t interview so it was all done from our UCCA application, so yes they did cream off the high achievers. I decided to go to the uni that actually interviewed and assessed your practical ability, my 18yr old self worked out that they may have a better idea of your ability to complete the course.

Excellent post by angry mum, I totally agree with her every word! Ds is also very bright, achieved 4As for STEM subject A levels, is now a third year at a non Russell group university, I am a dentist and the amount of snobbery I have encountered from colleagues, and from others is unbelievable! Comments such as why is DS going there when he could be going to a much better ranked uni, here or there? Ds has a job lined up at PwC for next September after he graduates , after completing a summer internship, as do a lot of his cohort. The university strongly encourages an internship or sandwich year which again, a lot of the students have managed to find. Honestly, if I said the name of the university on here, I'm sure Mumsnet would mostly collectively look down on it! He has 2 friends at this university who have been offered investment banking roles with starting salaries of 55k for next September after also completing internships, so , again this goes against Mumsnet wisdom that you need to go to top universities to break into these fields!
In addition, as this university is local to us , DS has stayed home, I have paid his fees, and he has worked throughout, enabling him to graduate with zero debt and a job lined up.

I really wish dd could stay at home while at uni. I think it's a great option if you can make it work.

Liverpool John Moore's is excellent for Quantity Surveyors.

Yes Ghilliegums, I totally agree.
I lived at home whilst completing my degree in London, I was lucky I was able to do that, and I honestly had the best years of my life whilst commuting into uni on a daily basis. Ds again is commuting to a London uni, and is so happy and has enjoyed his time at university greatly.
With DD we haven't managed to make this work and she has to live in halls as commuting wasn't possible, which I really regret.
Whereas DS will graduate debt free, DD will have to take out loans, as although I am paying the same amount towards her education as I did for DS , living in halls is really expensive so I am unable to cover the full amount, necessitating student finance to be taken out.
I really regret the disparity between my two kids, and I wish we could have made commuting work for DD

With my first dc I would have been horrified if anyone had suggested they live at home. Since then three have gone - absolutely shit standard of accommodation particularly once out of halls. They've made it work, but quite frankly it's sometimes been miserable- people puking all over the bathrooms, black mould, rats!, shit heating, broken hot water. Now with my last to go she's deliberately chosen the best uni she could that's only an hour and half drive away so she can come home when she wants- still have to pay for the accommodation and it will be there if she wants it, but she can come home once or twice a week if she likes. I'm totally happy with this.

I don’t recognise £200 a week accommodation with rats! I think stories are hugely exaggerated. Students really can get decent accommodation for that money everywhere. Even in London. Too many dc believe stories without looking for themselves. If students don’t trust any landlord, that’s clearly foolish.

@MarchingFrogs My point is that staying at home is great in cities with high class unis. You surely expect a student with great A levels not to go to some of the least well performing unis? There are reasons why students don’t want move but they can defer as often these barriers are not permanent. With the loan system there is a way and work helps too. I don’t agree there’s not a way to go.

Also - site management. That’s an interesting one. DH is a Charttered Engjmeer. They have made ££££ because construction companies cannot build accurately, He sorts out the expebsive mess. Has anyone ever wondered why we have a poorly built housing stock? People managing the sites are far less qualified than the design engineers. Most of these jobs will pay well but hire and fire is the culture. Believe me, it’s not an easy ride for a career. High pay is the compensation. Obviously all wannabee doctors should become site supervisors.

Tizer - this was Bristol and it's very common. Exeter too. Go and google rigtmove or student cribs for prices