United World College Atlantic (Wales)

[shockthemonkey]

I am being asked my opinion of this IB school... I know it's not an HEI, but the ultimate objective is to study STEM at an excellent UK uni, so I thought the fantastic people on this board might have some insights.

The family live in West Africa. They want to give their daughter the very best chances. She is 15yrs old, currently studying the French Bac, entering 2nde which is third-last year ie yr 11 in UK. She is an academic whiz with an overall average of 19/20, and for a lycée student the enrichment side of things is very good (humanitarian projects, debating[. They are looking for an academic programme that is stronger in the sciences than the French Bac.

My only insider knowledge of UWC is from someone my age who attended back in the 80s - he said it was the best thing that happened to him (went from being bored at school, failing all his O levels, to undergrad at Oxford[.

Does anyone have any info? Thanks in advance!

Hi, OP -

I believe this is a preferred institution of the Spanish and Dutch royals, with at least 3 from these houses attending currently or in recent years.

UWC appears to offer a high quality education aiming to develop the whole person. Kurt Hahn who founded Gordonstun (sp?), which wouldn’t sound right for this girl, was closely involved with it and the emphasis on sport, volunteering, teamwork etc reflects his theories. I don’t mean to say that UWC is stuck in the early 20th c, only that it doesn’t offer an exclusively or perhaps even primarily intellectual focus.

Nevertheless UWC offers an IB programme (you would need to check for A levels) which is usually a sound marker of intellectual quality. My guess is that it wouldn’t be a disadvantage for someone aiming for a top STEM school, but I don’t think that intellectually it is necessarily a huge advantage.

However, what can happen when you find a good fit and everything suddenly clicks is that the world opens up. You can learn to learn, start doing significant independent work, etc. Oxbridge and the other top STEM schools (traditionally Imperial and Warwick, but this is changing) rate this kind of thing highly. It sounds like this may have happened to the person you know.

I had a look through some old threads and some of the boarding schools that came up in discussions of academic rigour were Rugby, Oundle and Marlborough. Also, perhaps Westminster has a coed 6th form? I don’t know whether these schools do IB, however.

I am by no means against UWC. It sounds intriguing. I think there is much to be said for offering young people a rounded life and letting them find their own priorities. However if this family is looking for an environment where many are aspiring to Oxbridge and other top programmes, it isn’t clear to me that they will find it at UWC.

I, too, would like to hear from someone who knows UWC better.

(I have done a certain amount of reading between the lines - I have some experience with this, as a former STEM admissions tutor in the tier just below COWI. I have seen applications from the schools mentioned above, and others, but none that I can recall from UWC. This is in no way significant)

It’s very close to my house and it’s very well regarded!

Search on UWC on Mumsnet. I believe it's very difficult to gain a place.

Hi, again -

I found prior threads about UWCA. A number of alumnae had written to say how much they loved it, and it seems to attract a good number of very bright students and to get decent Oxbridge results.

However one PP had written to say that a good alternative is Sevenoaks in Kent. The implication was that Sevenoaks is has similar values but is more academic. I saw a link showing that last year 54% got 40 or higher on the IB - outstanding. About 1/6 go to Oxbridge, again outstanding.

Only about 30% of the Sevenoaks pupils board; I don’t know if that would be an issue. There is a good international intake and there is a Y12 entrance point.

At any UK boarding school, the family needs to start now for Y12 entrance.

Thank you so much, poetry, talking and tennis! Very useful information.
Poetry I think I now see why my client is so convinced Prince Charles attended UWC! I said I was pretty sure he hadn’t, thinking it’s the Wales part that threw him.. but reading your first comment it seems the Gordonston (also sp?) connection probably did it.
The stats from Sevenoaks are pretty damn good, wow! Thanks again 💐

Also, OP, for doing STEM at the top UK schools the girl and her family (and you) might want to consider whether applicants with IB are being admitted.

I think it is an excellent qualification and our School happily accepts it, but we are not COWI - COWI are the question. Their STEM programmes may or may not require a common background from A Level, particularly Maths and FM .

Even when specialising in Maths and Sciences, IB covers a bit less material even whilst developing greater analytical skills. It is a trade off. French Bac is more difficult than IB.

The Complete University Guide and possibly UCAS itself now show the qualifications of recent intakes.

And Admissions Tutors like to help! That’s generally true, but triply so for an Overseas applicant who is this able. (Sadly everyone has one eye on the dosh now). Email enquiries to the admissions teams at the COWI universities in a couple of potential areas of interest to the girl, stating her tesults to date and her Overseas status and enquiring whether A Level is preferred over IB, might be very useful.

I really hope you will get reassurance regarding the IB, but it is better to be safe.

Someone I know who was looking for an IB boarding school this year for her daughter considered UWC Atlantic (I think she was excited by the royal connections) but has, after visiting several other UK boarding schools, settled on Wellington.

IB students planning on applying for STEM at UK universities do well to request an exemption from History/Geography/Economics and do a third science instead. It makes applications much more competitive - though not all schools are in a position to timetable this.

French Bac is more difficult than IB

This many have been true once upon a time but it is most definitely no longer the case. By a very wide margin.

Thanks, @Ceramiq It is a little while since I finished my admissions stint. If you have time to give a brief explanation I would be grateful 🙏

I don't have the experience you have, poetry, but the recent reforms are perceived to have weakend the Bac especially in the STEM subjects. That is chiefly because, instead of there being three streams to choose from - Sciences, Econ & Social Sciences, or Literature - there is a whole raft of common core subjects and then another long list of specialism subjects to pick from. You study three specialisms in Première and then you can only continue with two of those in Terminale, and in your last year your final exams in the two retained specialisms are examined in March although you continue to study your common core subjects. This has been noticed by STEM admissions tutors particularly those looking for very strong maths skills.

Two years ago I put in a FoI request to Cambridge after hearing that there were no French lycée students accepted in any STEM subjects at any Cambridge college that year. This seemed unlikely given that when you lump all STEM subjects together at Cambridge, one year's intake was 4000 students.

In response to my FoI Cambridge came back with a number somewhere between three and zero - they argued that to give the precise number would be identifying even though the entire report was completely anonymised.

I have a very helpful contact who is Maths tutor at Cambridge and responsible for admissions in his college. He said that zero was probably the exact number, as my source had suggested, if we are talking students coming straight from a French lycée. The only French-educated STEM undergrads accepted that year were those who had done a year at a good scientific prépa. There is of course an appetite for this type of student, as you probably know!

My contact also confirmed that students presenting IB had significantly better chances of being accepted into his college for STEM subjects.

So that's my tuppeny worth!

Prince Charles (at the time) attended Aberystwyth. For an academic year. That maybe the confusion.

Work colleagues daughter attended UWC for 6th form and spoke highly of it. Gave opportunities for meeting lots of fellow students from around the world. She went on to become a solicitor (originally graduated in History before taking a second degree in Law).

I believe they’ve also just acquired a new building which is being renovated.

Thanks very much for that explanation, OP - really helpful, if a bit shocking.

Most places at a UWC are allocated by the National Committees.
I work at a different UWC.

I need to sleep now.
I will write a longer post tomorrow.

Yes I think it was either the year spent at Aberystwyth - so the Wales connection -, or the fact that both UWC and Gordonstoun - where Charles did attend - were founded by the same man.

Thanks also, Marco - the family will certainly be looking at the National Committee route as they want the financial aid - though I understand they will have to evidence need to qualify for this, if they were offered a place. Anyway, sleep tight, and looking forward to your thoughts!

Hi
I'm an ex student at Atlantic college 20 ish years ago.
It's an amazing place and I would recommend it. Pm me if you have specific questions.

My understanding is that the UWCs are quite a special experience. I knew some one years ago who studied in Wales and then went onto run a major international bank and someone who DC studies at another UWC. They take students from all over the world and entry was seriously competitive.(She was STEM and went to a good University, but not Oxbridge)

Academic students from the Lycee CDG in London often switch for sixth form if they decide they are aiming for a top UK University. (The explanation would be that though the French Bac was FAR harder, UK Universities did not recognise this sufficiently - I wouldn't know but always assumed there an element of national pride was involved.)

Pupils largely went to Sevenoaks, which has a dedicated international sixth form, Westminster, Wimbledon or St Pauls. The first two offer boarding - I am not sure about the latter two. St Pauls had a small number of boarders and has started taking girls, but presumably would not offer the same boarding experience as the first two. Westminster is A levels but you take four (possibly five if you opt for electronics) so a reasonable amount of breadth, and certainly a lot of depth. I think I read that Winchester is about to take girls as well, though being part of a first intake can be tricky. . .

So as someone said UWCs were partly the brain child of Kurt Hahn.
The idea is you have students from all over the world living together and getting to know how other people think.
Watching the conversations between a Ukrainian and a Russian the day after the invasion was incredible. Although the Ukrainian had been telling me about micro aggressions for weeks before hand.

The main route of entry is via the National Committees. Selection criteria are often academic but also the type of personality who will benefit. We have so many students who are self starters and have amazing ideas of what they can do.

Funding is available but it varies by country and is normally means tested. We have refugees who we fund the education of but other students whose parents pay full fees.

Most National Committees allow you to pick which of the 18 UWCs you go to but the decision is ultimately theirs.

The Global scholars programme is also an option as is direct entry. Both however have similar entrance requirements but require parental funding.

I hope that all makes sense.

I used to work there. Would recommend it wholeheartedly. Am very much hoping my children get to go there though feels unlikely. I don't have extensive experience working in educational establishments to compare it to but I'd say the way UWC's nurture friendships and understanding amongst young people from different countries, religions, backgrounds etc it something truly wonderful. Academically they expect excellence, but the culture and support structure lend themselves to that. The kids also learn a skill alongside schooling so they come out with more worldly knowledge (IE some went and volunteered in care homes, some ran activity summer schools for younger kids, some ran the local life boat station, some learned the inner workings of a theatre everything from lighting and sound to promotions etc).

Then when it comes to UWC Atlantic in particular...it's just such a unique place. Studying in a 12th century Welsh castle, right on the coast, with indoor and outdoor pools which was also the home of the IB itself. The friendships are lifelong. They have reunions every 10 years where everyone stays in the dorms etc like they did when they were kids and they're always so well attended! People also go on to do seriously incredible things, the unis that people went onto after...just wow! Opens global doors and opportunities. If I could go back in time and send myself there I would in a heartbeat.

That is amazing feedback, once again thank you one and all. It will all be passed on to the family and I’ll be sure to check out older UWC threads.

My nephew went on full scholarship and thrived. It sounds incredible . It's a school for people who are motivated by a sense of social purpose

My son just started at AC, after going through the National Selection Committee. He is having an absolutely amazing time and loves the experience. Academically he was at the top of the graduating class (UK, very large high school) and very strong in STEM - and he now says that they curriculum at AC is incredibly difficult across the board.

Outside the classroom, there are so many things to do - he is on the debate team and basketball team, has volunteered to cook for his house once a week, and has signed up for various councils and other activities. I just went to visit, and met his friends from about 15 different countries. The campus is just incredible - it’s in a 12th century castle on a stunning bit of the Welsh coast, after all.

What is most important to him is that all the students are driven, ambitious, interesting and values-led, and everyone is there for a reason - plus maybe the club nights in the medieval barn and the trips to the pub also make a difference 🙂 At any rate he seems like a changed person after just a month!

So, AC might not be right for everyone but it is a truly amazing place full of incredible young people.

I grew up nearby. I was taught to swim in the outdoor pool when I was 4 (1970s) by the sixth formers. Two sixth formers who were interested in art came to my primary school to make Christmas decorations with us when I was 10 and I taught my own kids some of the techniques many years later. They also coached our netball and cricket teams. I wonder if they still do that sort of thing with local schools.

I went to a top university for STEM in the 1990s and came across a few ex students from there. I think it still enjoys a good reputation although I haven’t been back to the area for some years because my parents moved to the Gower (one amazing location to another!) in retirement.

My DC was accepted and started but it wasn't right for her and she had an old fashioned "nervous breakdown" and had to come home. It's a gruelling application process and I would echo all the amazing comments above. It is a lot for 16 yr old though especially ND ones. And whilst the pastoral care was brilliant the much touted medical /psychology care was appalling. We declared all medical issues and were assured of a super qualified medical team which wasn't the case at all.
So while it certainly is an amazing place and opportunity and you usually only hear positive stories, there is another side to be aware of.

I went to one of the UWC colleges and it changed my life. It gave me opportunities I would never have had- scholarships, access to best education in the world, long-lasting international friendships and eventually an amazing career. It also gave me a good view on privileged and what it means not havjng it in such environment. I was there in late 2000s- health and mental health support was unheard of- everybody went to their home countries for it. It is extremely competitive, tough, and demanding environment.

Also an alum and sent two children here, one about to finish. It's not the place is used to be in lots of ways but I think it's still special and both DCs happy. I would add that academics are mixed in quality - your children will have to study a lot by themselves in maths and science. The website is a bit misleading as it gives the impression students are doing outdoor activities or going out on the sea (as in the past) regularly but this hardly happens now. I hear lots of families are unhappy about this. My DC works in the student restaurant owned by an alum who has the students work for him - I remember thinking this is not 'service' (which was big part of the mission in my day) - but he seems to enjoy that the most. Make sure you insist on being in one of the nice new boarding houses. We used our friend in the fundraising department a lot to get things to happen for us - being pushy helps there. They're looking for money so be prepared for a lot of interactions with fundraising!