Degree apprenticeship- what I’ve learnt

[OrangeSofa1]

Having had 2 dc go through the process here is my worldly wisdom!

• They take so much time to apply for. Many of them 5 stages or so. Don’t apply all at once, say on a Sunday. My ds ended up with 3 online assessments to complete within 48 hours on the Monday. With school and homework it became a bit stressful. Spread them out.
• Have a mind map of things they have experienced/ skills. When you get to the interview stages they ask a question, give you a minute or two to think, then you record your answer. Having examples of a time they have overcome a problem ( mind map - maybe D of E expedition, part time job with a tricky customer etc) or worked in a team, and so on, takes the pressure off having ideas they can refer to.
• Get excited about uni options. At one final interview, my ds was told he was down to the last 50 from 20,000 applicants. They are hard to get.
• Research the company well and make notes about the actual apprenticeship. For some interviews, my ds knew the company ethos well but couldn’t remember what elements of the actual apprenticeship appealed to him. ( as he’d applied to so many!)
• The uni support wasn’t amazing for my Dd. But the work pressure also wasn’t as bad. Her boss would give her extra time off when she had an assignment due, they were very supportive.
• It is a different experience but not a bad one compared to uni. My dd would easily spend £100 on a night out of fine dining and cocktails. But hey, she was earning her own money and had no student loans.They still need to learn how to budget from their salary!
• They don’t always lead to a job. My dd had 4 years at a huge pharmaceutical. All they offered at the end were 6/12 month contracts. She left and got a grad job elsewhere easily.
• You have to search the net looking for opportunities. Keep a list of when they open up, some close quickly for applications as they have so many applications. If you are not motivated and don’t invest the time you’re not the right person to do an apprenticeship. But nagging from me to keep checking was still needed!
• Hybrid working. Many companies only go in the office 3 days a week. Don’t sign a contract on accommodation until you know you have secured the grades.
• Accommodation. Yes, it is scary not sending an 18 year old to halls. The company doesn’t tend to help but they do put fellow apprentices in touch. Some of my dd’s peers even stayed in a travel lodge 3 nights a week and worked from home the rest of the week until they found a shared house.

Hope that helps anyone interested in a degree apprenticeship!

People who want to follow this up for their DC can save a bit of time on bullet point 8. UCAS now lists Apprenticeships: https://www.ucas.com/explore/search/apprenticeships?query=&refinementList%5BVacancyType%5D%5B0%5D=Apprenticeship

Degree Apprenticeships are very thin on the ground though. There need to be far more. Employers please note!

All of that is great advice OP particularly regarding the application process and interviews.

DS had a wad of paper with typical interview questions and his answers so he could just refer back to for the virtual interview questions. And he became adept at researching the key info on companies he was applying to.

One last thing I would add is don't think only Degree Apprenticeships are the only ones worth going for.
DS got down to the last 25 for Kraft Heinz Degree Apprenticeship and did the final assessment centre but they only took 2 applicants on, he was gutted to not be successful initially.

However he ended up getting offers for 2 Level 4 apprenticeships - one with the MOD and one with an Investment Bank. There's no tie in commitment after completing the Level 4 industry exams and scope to continue onto higher level professional quals after. Whilst Degree Apprenticeships are great, they are few and far between and a level 4 is a good step in the right direction.

That's interesting, DS applied for a lot of degree apprenticeships and a few level 4's, he got through to the next round in almost all the degree apprenticeships but was immediately rejected by all the level 4's. He probably applied to 15 - 20 positions total.

To add to the OP I would recommend having some questions to ask at the end of face to face interviews, DS always asked how likely there was to be a job at the end of the apprenticeship, a question about the programming languages used and then ended on what the best thing about working for the company was. I would also say make sure you've done a lot of (preferably relevant) things beyond A-levels that you can fill a CV with and draw on to answer questions - work experience, volunteering, EPQ, part time jobs, short courses, competitions, hobbies etc

I felt that the cv writing and interview experience was invaluable even if it didn't lead to a position tbh. DS did end up turning down some interviews to concentrate on others, as PP said it can get confusing to remember one companies details from another. Also the face to face interviews often fall around mocks time. I knew the whole experience would enable DS to see that if he ended up going to uni that he needed to ensure he was doing more than just his degree - so he had things to make him stand out from everyone else with a degree when it came to getting a job. I really noticed that the more interviews he did the more confident he became, he was extremely anxious the first time!

If you are doing engineering or comp sci there are lots of apprenticeships so ds was lucky and he found the perfect one for him. He found though that the whole process could be quite different from one company to another, Barclays was a complete shambles with the interviewer arriving late, completely disinterested, and unable to answer his questions - and after all that they were told the process was on hold and didn't hear anything else for weeks. At the other end of the spectrum JP Morgan was very supportive, polished and extremely well organised with excellent communication - it seemed like you could tell just from the process the companies where the apprenticeship was likely to be very organised and well supported.

I would also say start looking from early in Yr 13, they started advertising the first ones in October I think. DS signed for accommodation before he new he got the grades because he was confident he could get them and it was going to be much trickier trying to sort accommodation just a couple of weeks before he started.

I agree that degree apprenticeships are fantastic and there need to be loads more. But they do need to be good quality and kids need to make sure the company isn't going to lead them down a path that's going to narrow their options too much to give them good future prospects.

@Beth216 DS actually found the JPMORGAN interviewer wasn't as much enthusiastic on hearing about his programming projects and plenty of initiatives to learn beyond the curriculum as other applicants DS asked later! He also realised that they didn't ask him why us and found out on tsr that when they ask why apprenticeship you should bring up why this company and their projects which you absolutely adore anyway! So for DS it was a one way street. He had to show interest in them without even being asked explicitly but they didn't show much interest in him. His group was also only 3 cooperative and able people so none had the opportunity to "shine".

What we found utterly depressing was that at the final stage which DS didn't get to candidates apparently spent 90 minutes going round meeting staff who were asking them AGAIN the same questions why apprenticeship and how will you manage it. Basically you could be brilliant but not very good at convincing them how much you've fallen in love with them.

There are thousands of applicants for a few positions. A BoE intern had said that graduates start there at 35k while apprentice graduates start at 32k. I wonder why that is.

Also, many are told by various companies finance insiders that finance apprentices work at the back office making the products and supposedly you can't move from there. Apparently it's the front office people (or whatever they are called) who make 100s of k in finance. That's what I've read in tsr.

'Also, many are told by various companies finance insiders that finance apprentices work at the back office making the products and supposedly you can't move from there. Apparently it's the front office people (or whatever they are called) who make 100s of k in finance. That's what I've read in tsr.'

Yes this is what I've read about JP Morgan finance on tsr but I don't know if it's true or just a rumour that goes round every year. DS got to the final stage (tech not finance) really enjoyed it and came out buzzing - but did say some of the same questions were asked by different people. He didn't find it depressing though as it was obviously about getting a feel for you and you could take the interview off in whatever direction you liked really. He's not bothered about getting the highest pay though, their support for him as an autistic applicant was much more important. He's more bothered about not getting into a ton of debt, getting paid from the off and most importantly getting loads of work experience.

Thank you for this. It’s really helpful. Does anyone have any idea what happens to those thousands who aren’t success in their applications? I guess some get other placements, but given how hard it is to get one of these, what do the rest do?

@Lovetotravel123 They just get a regular job!

DN applied (halfheartedly admittedly) last year for various apprenticeships and was unsuccessful. However he managed to get a maternity cover contract in a local company accounts department, and when that finished applied for various other jobs. Now working in a great local company, earning a decent salary and doing well. He doesn't have the formal training of an Apprenticeship provider, but his company are training him in his job with lots of support and he's really enjoying it.

@Lovetotravel123 or go the traditional uni route. They would then have the joy of jumping through the hoops of several stages of interview a few years later if they apply for grad roles.

@Beth216 it's great that your DS managed to get to the final stage! That's an amazing achievement. Mine applied for technology too. He had done courses and personal work that the interviewer wasn't interested in, plus he couldn't answer any of the questions DS asked because he was doing a different role. Tell your DS that I'm especially proud of him being autistic and getting further than most candidates!!

I have read the thing about finance on many tsr threads, not JP Morgan. I don't know how true it is but I'm putting it here just in case it interests others. I think when candidates ask such questions during interviews they don't always get the right answers and like my DS some of the interviewers have no idea about the apprentices' work. It's insiders, normally friends who divulge such information which you might end up reading on forums.

Somebody's connections had told him that the graduates get all the good work to do and they dump everything they don't want to do on the apprentices. I don't remember if it was JP Morgan or another like UBS, but when this user got the offer actually accepted it so I don't know how true or usual it is.

Thanks for this thread - it's really useful. My ds has just done his A Levels and is taking a gap year. Ideally he'd have some sort of apprenticeship to start next September, however I'm not sure how it's going to work with him planning to be abroad/travelling from Jan 25 to the summer. Presumably this is when most of the applications open/interviews take place etc?

@Lovetotravel123 there are very few degree apprenticeships. You keep reading on Mumsnet why don't you apply for apprenticeships when the good ones take 10/2000 candidates i.e a smaller success rate than Oxbridge.

@Beth216 DH has worked in IT for decades and apart from once when he applied for a bank he's just had technical interviews and very rarely a psychometric test.

The thing with apprenticeships is because they are willing to take anybody who's got the aptitude and teach them from the beginning they mostly care about you as a person and can't always tell if you will love it. That's why you also see drop outs who say it was not what they thought but they had convinced the interviewers that they are the best because they can interview well. Of course universities have high dropout rates, maybe higher than apprenticeships!

What I want to say is that if you are a graduate and have good projects you can apply for many companies that have no hoops to jump, apart from a technical interview.

Having said that, they should introduce many more degree apprenticeships, including at the different government offices who preach others about apprenticeships! The DWP a few years ago had a degree apprenticeship for 32k. Later they only had a level 4 one, but at the same pay. Now it's for 29k!! With the cost of living crisis and a single room renting for £900 a month how can people survive??

Just to add: these apprenticeships are in companies whose needs for grads can fluctuate. There’s no guarantee of anything upon qualification if they are making redundancies or changing how they work,

If a company is paying more for grads than apprentice grads, the work should be different.

Degree Apprenticeships are seen as an alternative to uni by many but the odds are so slim. Oxbridge odds are way better if you meet their standards! I would also look at how the apprentices are used. What value is the work and how good is the degree? They might suit the risk averse but would going to a top uni actually serve you better in the long run? Eg is the apprenticeship a BEng or MEng? If the former career progression can be limited.

That's right! Some like IBM open on February. Goldman Sachs might be open now. DS applied there last year and on February I think received a reply that they didn't have the chance to process his application and that was it. I thought it was a euphemistic way of saying you weren't good enough but someone on tsr e-mailed and they said they had started processing the applications from the end!!! Their applications were open for many months, maybe until January.

@TizerorFizz The thing is that they don't tell you the exact work you will be doing and some people find from insiders. You only have a chance to ask questions if you reach the interview stage and even then you might be interviewed by someone who doesn't work with apprentices and has no clue. But you have to show them that you know everything about them.

Very interested to read all this. What is tsr? The more I read, the more I think apprenticeship is a good idea for my DC. However much we would like to save on tuition fees. My DC are (of course) wonderful, but by no means exceptional. Perhaps having a few more years to mature and explore career interests, is a good idea for some.

thestudentroom

There are also admissions and clearing experts on it.

Every year there are more candidates which makes it incredibly he hard but if unsuccessful it could still help for the future with interview and company research skills.

Good thread. I too found all the applications came at once and ds1 was busy doing tests and applications then interviews all at the same time. If you go into it knowing that it'll make it better.

@chocorabbit For some careers there are professional exams. I would 100% expect an employer who offers professional training to say exactly how dc would get it post degree. I think large companies might hive off anpprentices into a separate “box” with separate staff and not integrate them within the company as well as they might. This could lead to apprentices being second class employees behind some grads who might be fast tracked. The employers should spell this out. Maybe look at what grads get to compare? My example of MEng, or BEng if you are an apprentice, is a clear example of this. MEng is the fast track. Are other employers doing the same? I don’t know if they are, but it’s a possibility.

Also not all apprentice employers are huge. Many smaller companies are not necessarily the best at training. Many low tariff unis are used. I would look at the value of the degree too. You have it for nothing in terms of money but is it going to be the launch pad to greater things? Eg: If dc could have gone to Bristol or Sheffield, would one of their engineering degrees be better? For some dc, yes.

That's all very relevant for engineering @TizerorFizz but not necessarily for other careers. I'm in accountancy, I worked for a big 4 for many years and they don't distinguish between grads and apprentices (or experienced hires) - they're all as likely (or not) to make director/partner. So I've got no hesitation in encouraging ds to apply for them. A smaller firm would also be fine, I moved from a small firm to big 4. I just know my ds would really enjoy the sociable aspect of a big firm.

He's also interested in surveying/real estate and that's an area where I know nothing.

Thank you @chocorabbit i will delve into it when have a bit more time. I’ve re-read my most and meant to say something along lines of “I don’t think apprentice good idea as DC not exceptional”.

@crazycrofter I really was not saying it’s for every professional role but it’s reasonable to ask, and be told, if the apprentices get the same trajectory as the grads. I don’t know about surveying either. Some surveying friends have degrees and others don’t. These days they probably all do! The same question arises in a way. What degree, or what training, and where will it lead? Are grad recruits fast tracked?

@TizerorFizz I have certainly seen professional examples described in accountancy. Some accountancy apprentices seem to struggle with their exams and work load. Others seem to find Audit boring and quit.