2.1 from Oxford or 1st from Bristol/Durham

[kekeke]

Could someone help settle a debate I had with a work colleague. Her daughter has just got her a level results and got AAA which means she met the entry requirements for her offer of History at Oxford (Balliol).

The mum was more keen for the daughter to accept Bristol or Durham, citing that she’ll have less pressure and it will be a lot easier to get a first there than Oxford (probably true). So the mum thinks getting a 1st from Bristol will be better than getting a 2.1 from Oxford.

Thoughts?

Getting a first from a good university is better than a 2:1 at Oxford / Cambridge IMO.
But she needs to let her daughter make the choice

Absolutely not. Especially for a humanities degree like history, Oxbridge still ranks way ahead other Russell group (possibly excepting London).

She would be absolutely bonkers to go to Bristol over Oxford, and it will limit her employment opportunities in future.

The degree course at Oxford is also far more rigorous (think several essays a week rather than an essay a term), not to mention Oxford is a more diverse university and better experience than Bristol (college based system etc. )

I think that that is a strange attitude as so many other factors come into play, especially for History (the range of modules will be very different between different Universities).
How come she has decided in advance that DD will 'only' get a 2:1 at Oxford? Thanks, Mum.

Just pointing out there is no guarantee she would get a 1st at the good Non-Oxford Uni.....

So the argument is flawed right there...

To be honest, she may have a point! (says the Oxford tutor). Oxford is hard work! The tutorial system and College system are very special. Some will love it, some won't.

Others in different lines of employment may be better able to advise on how eg. employers see a 2.1 from Oxford versus a 1st from Bristol. I do know that the management consultant that I once worked for had a points system which gave additional points for Oxbridge, which made them equivalent. I also know that almost all the recruits were Oxbridge...But that was decades ago and others will be far more up to date.

Will also add, my daughter just graduate from Oxford with a 2.1. Would she have got a 1st elsewhere (quite possibly, most of her peers from school who went elsewhere did). Did she think she worked a lot harder? Yes. Does she regret it? No.

We have plenty of AAA students at my RG university who don’t get a first. There’s no correlation between the two at all. A-levels and degrees require completely different modes of learning.

DD, currently sweating her way through a reading list in advance of finals year, would be inclined to agree. She doesn't think she has any hope of a first because the sheer volume of work means she isn't covering enough possible exam areas in enough depth.

She has been told explicitly, 'Your work is great, but there's not enough of it,' which suggests that she might have been better elsewhere. Time will tell.

She should also consider whether having everything resting on a hellish week in finals year is her style, or whether 'banking' some work in advance would suit her better.

Better on what terms? I worked in recruitment for several years and I’m really not convinced it makes a difference from an employment perspective.

She would be absolutely bonkers to go to Bristol over Oxford, and it will limit her employment opportunities in future.

There are quite a lot of people who don't go to Oxford who manage to get perfectly good jobs 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yes, good point from @MonsterSister regarding assessment styles.

The degree course at Oxford is also far more rigorous (think several essays a week rather than an essay a term

What the hell?

I went to a non RG uni and I wasn't doing so little work i was writing one essay a term.

Mine was more like several a week.

Enjoy your snobbery though.

Edit I ended up a solicitor so clearly never made anything of myself.

Interesting one.

I did maths at Cambridge. A girl I was friendly with did maths at Durham. I got a 2.1. She got a 1st. I was better than her at maths. (Not by a lot but by a little bit -think if marked out of 50 then I would get 48 - 50, she would get 46 - 49.) We both now do the same job ironically.

Whether an employer sees a 1st from Durham or a 2.1 from Cambridge as better is debatable. I suspect that an employer with an Oxbridge background would see Oxbridge as better. Those with a (non Oxbridge) RG background would prefer the 1st.

I think that if you want to be an academic then the first is more important.

I think that if you want to be an academic then the first is more important

That’s true in the sense that you won’t get funding for a PhD (certainly not in History) without a First (and a Distinction for your MA).

Debatable.

Probably won't make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things. The girl should make her own decision based on other factors - which course does she like better, what city, what vibe did she get when she visited. Sounds like she will do well regardless.

It probably is more likely she would get a 1st at another university - but that seems like a crazy reason to turn down Oxford.

Mosy employers don't care whether someone has a first or a 2:1. It won't make any difference to her job prospects in that sense but going to one of the best universities in the world is an experience which will stand her in great stead.

I am of course not saying that you can't have a good career if you don't go to Oxford but it's an elite university, I can't believe someone would try and undermine their daughter's confidence and talk her out of going.

A lot more depends on which university she preferred when visiting. Personally I would never give up an offer from Oxbridge in favour of Bristol etc.

I really hope that this remains a conversation between work colleagues and not between mother & daughter.
Tell me she hasn't chosen this moment to rain on her DD's parade.

The biggest driver of potential earnings is still class difference, and I don't mean between a first and a 2:1.

Which course will she enjoy the most?

It's three years of your life and she needs to be happy, having fun and working hard.

Will she want a job too? What is the accommodation like?

Do employers really care about grade? I have a 2:2 and I've been ok so far in life!!

I think there is more to it than degree classification. Like certain schools can shape character and your future, so can certain universities. The journey is sometimes even more important than the destination. A first is jot guaranteed anywhere (and I would choose Oxbridge any day - not only because of the prestige but because of the lifestyle is also different from other universities)

Exactly

Can you imagine being the sort of mum who would do this?

Not "well done, what an achievement!" But "you probably won't do well there, better not try"

Is she jealous of her DD?

Oxbridge also lends itself to firmer friendships due to being in the same college and therefore accomplishing for the duration

(not trying to be a bitch)

but there are no A stars in that set of A levels (?) so why expect a first at uni?

I guess it would be odd to turn down a place at Oxford. I didn't know you could get into Oxford without a pile of A stars.

Hmm. I got a first at Bristol and was one of three who did in a cohort of 80+. Don't assume that Bristol etc are easier! If she has a chance at Oxford I would absolutely encourage that.