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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

A level Review of Marking 2024

100 replies

Alex65 · 16/08/2024 08:38

DS was predicted 4A. He ended up with 4As but his 1st choice uni wants an A. He doesn't want to go to his insurance. He's off an A* by 1 Mark in music and 2 marks in History where the year group coursework was moderated down 4 marks. He's asked for a review of marking on 2 history papers and 1 music (the listening paper).
It's very strange that the one history paper he thought he did really well on is the lowest mark and brought his grade down along with 4 marks off the coursework. Everyone in his year bar 2 came down a grade in history and school wrote to them all to say they are appealing.
Trying to be really positive here...everything happens for a reason ect....but just reaching out on this forum for support from others in the same position or who've been through this stress before!
They are priority reviews.....do you know how long they take.....we know marks can go up and down....He's still done really well but it feels rotten that his university place is now hanging on 1 or 2 marks.

OP posts:
Okayornot · 28/08/2024 21:19

We've had DD's back and they found an extra 15 marks so gets an A overall. Big relief as it'll open more doors for her. I still think the marking is a bit stingy, but we'll take it!

2fallsagain · 28/08/2024 21:23

Oh that's great news! Well done. I've not heard back from our exams office which is a bit annoying. I'm hoping they will get straight on it when they come back to work.

Well done to your DD. I'm keeping everything crossed for mine!

Alex65 · 29/08/2024 08:02

Great news. 15 marks is a lot. Just confirms the inconsistency in humanities being posted here.
What subject and board was it?

OP posts:
Okayornot · 29/08/2024 08:29

AQA Eng Lit B.

TBH I'm fuming this can happen. I understand the constraints but really it shouldn't be so hard to achieve consistent marking. Makes me have no faith in any of the results, good and bad.

2fallsfromSSA · 29/08/2024 08:32

That's the same as the papers we are reviewing. Is that Tragedy and SPP? I think there are book options within that spec too. I think there are so many options and the mark scheme is vague but detailed (as someone pointed out here) the examiners are not consistent. DDs teacher said the marking was incredibly harsh but the comments indicated to her the person did not know what they were doing.

It's terrible really.

2fallsfromSSA · 29/08/2024 08:34

Was that 15 actual marks or 15 scaled marks?

I just want to get on with it now!

poetryandwine · 29/08/2024 08:59

Congratulations to all the DC whose marks were revised upwards upon review. Some of their experiences are concerning.

poetryandwine · 29/08/2024 09:05

Thanks for the article by Dennis Sherwood, @Cafeconleche

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 10:16

There remain quite big issues with examiner recruitment, to be honest. No one wants to do it. The pay is chicken feed and the workload high. In a system with such a high reliance in exams , this is a problem!

Patiosong · 29/08/2024 10:39

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 10:16

There remain quite big issues with examiner recruitment, to be honest. No one wants to do it. The pay is chicken feed and the workload high. In a system with such a high reliance in exams , this is a problem!

And you lose a big wodge of it in tax. Especially if you're on ups with responsibility already.

None of ours have gone up. Eduqas a and gcse.

I mark, so I'm kind of torn: of course my marking is accurate! How dare you question me?

But then, I look at my students and I'm indignant. The trouble is, a student could be 4 marks off a grade for example, but if the tolerance in each band of the mark scheme is 2, then it may have erred on the side of harsh, but still be correct.

Okayornot · 29/08/2024 11:08

2fallsfromSSA · 29/08/2024 08:32

That's the same as the papers we are reviewing. Is that Tragedy and SPP? I think there are book options within that spec too. I think there are so many options and the mark scheme is vague but detailed (as someone pointed out here) the examiners are not consistent. DDs teacher said the marking was incredibly harsh but the comments indicated to her the person did not know what they were doing.

It's terrible really.

Not the same papers- there are two AQA English Lit B specs.
That's the scaled marks (though I miscounted by one!)
It took 6 days to come back from date of request, so hopefully you will hear back soon .

poetryandwine · 29/08/2024 11:16

The Dennis Sherwood article is interesting. I won’t dismiss the possibility that he is a bit of a provocateur (even if @Piggywaspushed , who seems a beacon of common sense, vouches for him). However the article raised some excellent points.

Most concerning to me was the implicit admission from Ofqual in quotations from 2016 and 2019 reports that the marking schemes straddle the grade boundaries. In other words, if we presume that different papers in a subject are marked by different people, an exam marked within the guidance by a set of harsher markers could earn a lower grade than the same exam legitimately marked by a set of markers interpreting guidance more generously.

This concern is appalling, all the more so because it is not grounds for appeal or a re-mark. The exam boards could agree to adjust the grade boundaries to prevent it, yet as far as I am aware this has not happened.

The problem seems to be worse is essay based papers than in STEM.

Does anyone know more about this? TIA

Patiosong · 29/08/2024 11:25

We're told not to think in terms of grade boundaries, as they change anyway.

Mine is marked in 5 bands. Roughly top band 4 is an A. Band 3 could be C or D. When I'm marking, I'm looking at where it fits the interpretstion of the mark scheme this year, which could be slightly different to last year.

It makes life very difficult as a teacher, when you're constantly having to decide where a student is at and what their predicted outcome will be.

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 11:34

I shall quote 'beacon of commonsense' at frequent intervals!

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 12:08

I think the issue Sherwood , and others, highlight was amplified in the algorithm fiasco. Statisticians employed by government and Ofqual happily rattle out 'studies show grades are accurate to one grade in either direction'. Obviously, this means some students are getting As and were probably a B. But it also means there are plenty getting Bs who should be As. This happens most in subjective subjects. Students have every right to study these and should be confident in doing so. During the whole algorithm nonsense, it was infuriating to hear that quote trotted out, ignoring the inevitability that students lose out on uni places to other students who may not have been better than them.

This is supposed to be mitigated against by moderation , standardisation and also by different markers marking questions, rather than being given a whole paper.

poetryandwine · 29/08/2024 14:30

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 12:08

I think the issue Sherwood , and others, highlight was amplified in the algorithm fiasco. Statisticians employed by government and Ofqual happily rattle out 'studies show grades are accurate to one grade in either direction'. Obviously, this means some students are getting As and were probably a B. But it also means there are plenty getting Bs who should be As. This happens most in subjective subjects. Students have every right to study these and should be confident in doing so. During the whole algorithm nonsense, it was infuriating to hear that quote trotted out, ignoring the inevitability that students lose out on uni places to other students who may not have been better than them.

This is supposed to be mitigated against by moderation , standardisation and also by different markers marking questions, rather than being given a whole paper.

It is good to have confirmed that markers concentrate on a single question, @Piggywaspushed , as at university (at least in STEM and probably throughout). That helps a lot.

But as you say, it still leaves scope for unfair outcomes that could be mitigated by avoiding situations where the marks range straddled the grade boundary. I don’t doubt it takes some planning but it is not an overwhelming chore. It is a question of priorities. I should think fairness would be one of them

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 14:51

I don't think they can do that , though, because the grade boundaries are decided afterwards. It's not like HE where 70% is always a first.

To me , it's just really important to have the proper QA of marking in place and I am not convinced.

Cafeconleche · 29/08/2024 22:19

poetryandwine · 29/08/2024 11:16

The Dennis Sherwood article is interesting. I won’t dismiss the possibility that he is a bit of a provocateur (even if @Piggywaspushed , who seems a beacon of common sense, vouches for him). However the article raised some excellent points.

Most concerning to me was the implicit admission from Ofqual in quotations from 2016 and 2019 reports that the marking schemes straddle the grade boundaries. In other words, if we presume that different papers in a subject are marked by different people, an exam marked within the guidance by a set of harsher markers could earn a lower grade than the same exam legitimately marked by a set of markers interpreting guidance more generously.

This concern is appalling, all the more so because it is not grounds for appeal or a re-mark. The exam boards could agree to adjust the grade boundaries to prevent it, yet as far as I am aware this has not happened.

The problem seems to be worse is essay based papers than in STEM.

Does anyone know more about this? TIA

Sherwood wrote a book about it in 2022 after the algorithm fiasco called ‘Missing the Mark’. According to Ofqual’s own 2018 statistics, the probability of being awarded a ‘definitive’ exam grade in subjects such as English Lit or History was less than 60% (96% in Maths, 92% in Chemistry etc)

A level Review of Marking 2024
Piggywaspushed · 30/08/2024 07:00

.. which is why you'll never get maths teachers and English teachers agree about the validity of exams!

Patiosong · 30/08/2024 08:26

Piggywaspushed · 30/08/2024 07:00

.. which is why you'll never get maths teachers and English teachers agree about the validity of exams!

And which is why moderation of mock exams in English goes on much longer than any other department! Oh, the arguing. And the trying to interpret the meaning of words like 'some' 'clear' 'purposeful' 'original'. And then there's the 'best fit".

Piggywaspushed · 30/08/2024 08:27

Indeed!

poetryandwine · 30/08/2024 09:29

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2024 14:51

I don't think they can do that , though, because the grade boundaries are decided afterwards. It's not like HE where 70% is always a first.

To me , it's just really important to have the proper QA of marking in place and I am not convinced.

Yes, it is in deciding those boundaries that the marking scheme could be used.

I do agree with you that excellent QA is the most important thing.

I am in a STEM subject where the exam marking guidance doesn’t leave much room for individual judgment, so one presumes the problem of individual marker’s judgments resulting in exams being on either side of degree classification boundaries is minimal. I am sure it is much more difficult in the Humanities! (STEM marking isn’t black and white; coursework marking can be complex).

One of the good things about an overall degree classification is that so many data points are used in the outcome that one or two small inaccuracies should do little damage, especially because we consider all borderline cases carefully. In that sense A Levels are harsher

poetryandwine · 30/08/2024 09:31

PS in deciding those boundaries afterwards, I mean. A significant ask but not a difficult one

SwayingInTime · 01/09/2024 11:49

22 extra marks for DD in Music - B to A as she only needeed 3 extra marks. Haven't seen the breakdown but I think she was only 6 marks from full marks in the composition element (performance can't be remarked) so assume the vast majority were from the written paper. Seems so random and we would never have gone for a remark if she had been eg. 10 marks from an A.

poetryandwine · 01/09/2024 12:06

SwayingInTime · 01/09/2024 11:49

22 extra marks for DD in Music - B to A as she only needeed 3 extra marks. Haven't seen the breakdown but I think she was only 6 marks from full marks in the composition element (performance can't be remarked) so assume the vast majority were from the written paper. Seems so random and we would never have gone for a remark if she had been eg. 10 marks from an A.

A staggering result. So glad you pursued this!

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