Links to Clearing Vacancies (with grades)

[HPFA]

Some links to popular universities who've now published their clearing grades. I've tried to ensure these are all lists for UK students but not all the unis specify so possible that some are international students only.

If anyone's DCs are worrying tonight it might reassure them that there seem to be a lot of decent courses around. Suspect a lot of these might get snapped up quickly though!

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/clearing/courses/

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/study/clearing/courses/#

https://www.southampton.ac.uk/clearing/course-vacancies

https://le.ac.uk/clearing [Leicester]

https://www.leeds.ac.uk/clearing/courses?l=uk&q=history

https://clearing.sheffield.ac.uk/

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/applying/clearing/home/

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/studywithus/ugstudy/clearing/clearing-courses.html

My DN was desperate to go to Loughborough. She didn't get the grades. BBD instead. There wasn't any places in though clearing at the uni and course.
Any advice? They've decided to take up another course and uni, but maybe you have advise? Worth ringing today?

I don’t have any particular knowledge that could help, but surely a phone call can’t hurt?

I did I read yesterday that the advertised grades for clearing were pretty fixed and the unis weren’t budging but it can’t hurt to ask?

Yes, it does seem pointless to have such different entry requirements leading students to have looked into very different options than those presented now. I can only think that universities are looking at balancing their books due to the big drop in international applicants- The Guardian says there has been a 16% drop this year.

We had an explanation of the offer grades vs accepted grades when we went to the UoManchester open day in June which I found interesting.
The director of physics admissions said they ask for high grades (2xAstar,1xA) because once they have made an offer it’s legally binding and they have to accept everyone who accepts the offer and then gets their grades.
They have apparently found from experience that A star, A star,A is the level that they can set at which they won’t then be over subscribed. (with 300 places in a year). So it’s at least in part a purely mechanical thing. If you apply to UoM with those predicted grades you get an offer, apparently. They can then choose who to admit who comes in below that in terms of actual grades.

However, I think there must also be an element of appearing to be a high tariff university that boosts your reputation. And also if you have expanded significantly you may struggle to find enough students with those grades to fill the course so have to look beyond that.
By contrast, Durham asks for the same grades but only has 140 places. Durham wasn’t in clearing for physics yesterday. Manchester, with 300 places, was, asking for
AAA and MPhys, and AAB for the BSc in physics. Which it now seems to have filled.

However, I think there must also be an element of appearing to be a high tariff university that boosts your reputation.

There's a thread on Reddit where someone who'd been asked for BBC at Edge Hill got DDE and was still able to go.

I do see the logic behind the U of M decision. But the problem with the current system is that it often leaves people applying blind.

DD finally made up her mind to go to to Uni earlier this year with BCC in hand. When we first started researching courses together and going off the entry requirements it looked like she'd be aiming at the top end of the ex-polys - places like Manchester Met. Then when clearing opened in July her possibilities extended to places like Aberystwyth, Bangor, Hull and Essex. Swansea, Reading and Sussex also seemed possible as reach targets. Now it looks like she might she have got in to Liverpool or Cardiff or Southampton if she'd joined the scrum instead of deciding earlier.

I'm confident she's ended up in a good place for her but the system just seems frustrating as we've really had to do a lot of guesswork along the way.

The Head of UCAS wrote in The Times last week suggesting that Clearing should be rebranded to indicate an active choice for prospective students looking to apply post results.

Perhaps it's time for UK universities join the rest of the world and switch to post results offers? No other countries do conditional offers / predicted grades (and they also have summer holidays and academic calendars and unions and etc)

A post-A Level system would be far better.

Or revert to the old AS/A2 system which I think Michael Gove got rid of just because that wasn't how exams were done in 1984.

Agree that unless you do some serious research and know patterns over a couple of years, many students could get something ‘better’ or more prestigious in Clearing, but often stick with their firmed offer. I think they get attached to that place and the idea of going there. On results day the default if you get your firm choice is to gratefully accept and not even consider anything else. The unis hope people will holding firm offers will do this and not look elsewhere.

It requires a certain mindset to decide to look for ‘better’ on results day, when you’ve got your firm and are emotionally exhausted. Most people will be unaware ‘better’ might be available to them.

What it does mean is that there is often a greater range of student ability (assuming A Levels are an accurate measure) than people think at lots of unis.

Apparantly though, more in Clearing last year were ‘upgrading’ than people without an offer they’d met. So actually, the use and purpose of Clearing is shifting and becoming more of a post-results market. It’s all v interesting. It works well for top unis, but the lower down the ranking you go, the more tricky it is for those institutions which are then losing students to the tier above. It’s an example of better information allowing the market to adjust. But information isn’t perfect and many students and parents have little awareness of what is out there in time to act on it…id they choose to. And of course there are all kinds of reasons to choose somewhere - prestige or ranking isn’t necessarily the top reason.

Yes, I saw that too. It influenced what I’ve just said.

The question is, what proportion of candidates can Clearing can with processing in the 48 hour key window if Ckearing that happens before this weekend? It’s like the market is trying to naturallybshift to post-qualifications application when the system itself isn’t set up to work like that….but naturally it actually works better like that. Or better for some instititions and students….probably the most powerful.

I think post results decisions would work much better. Then you don't get your hopes up only to get them dashed on the day. You have to be a fairly proactive type of teen to make the most of clearing on the day, and lots just won't have the confidence to do that.
Not that much would change – open days etc could stay just as they are, maybe applications could be made before results and the final decision gets made once you have your results rather than before. Maybe it would go on through September.

Then there's no need to game the grades, either for the unis, or for the candidates/schools. At the moment having high predicted grades is as important, if not more so, than your actual grades, which is really very odd.

This makes a bit of a mockery of the whole admissions process and disadvantages kids applying with grades in hand.

DS will be applying to this course in 2025 for a deferred place starting 2026. He's predicted BBB at the mo.

So say Liverpool give him an ABB offer. He gets BBB, they reject him as he's looking for a 2026 place and it's 2025 places they are trying to fill. He then has to apply the following year for a place with BBB in hand when the entrance requirement is likely to be ABB again- it has been for some time. He gets rejected beche doesn't have ABB but it then the course ends up in clearing at BBC which he has - but because he suffers from anxiety and likes to be organised he would struggle with waiting to see if something is in clearing rather than try and firm something earlier on.

The whole system needs changing- post results applications, with grades in hand seems sensible.

It all adds to the mystification of the process for candidates from working class or less represented communities I think. Some won't have a parent with experience of the system or who is able to offer guidance.

Perhaps UCAS can adopt the school admissions system which UK parents are familiar with? Students apply before exams with unis ranked in their preferences, on results day they will get an offer when unis offer from top down. That should allow students to get a fair chance with a range of unis in their preferences and no gaming through predicted grades.

International students go different route on UCAS and should be offered before the summer to allow visa applications.

That sounds very like the Irish system. You apply for 10 courses on the cao system and a week or so after results day yoy get the highest one you have the points for

She's just told me yesterday someone from the Department rang her to welcome her and ask if she had any questions.

So it sounds like it's a really welcoming place.

Absolutely. And with clearing almost nudging towards this and with the advances in AI/tech, surely it wouldn't be too big a leap to implement this. Must actually save time (and certainly a lot of anxiety and heartache amongst students) in the long run too!

Worst case, perhaps they could move exams to mid-May if they needed more time to process (with a slight adjustment/reduction in content to make up for this)?

So do admissions officers on here think that this year has been really odd or is this how it's going to be next year as well (my DD takes A levels next year)?

My conclusions (definitely not an AO!) are;

a) Assuming you're not aiming for a very competitive subject at a very competitive Uni, aim high!
b) Work really hard for mocks to get good predictions
c) Unis need the arts and humanities to subsidise the more expensive STEM courses but they will probably have to drop certain courses with very few applicants
d) Don't assume that the courses with high grade requirements will be full of A grade students
e) Dig deep into what each course involves. Lancaster told DD that the English lit course is going to be redesigned by September so actually look at the modules of a course. DD is keen to do a year abroad so she's going to email the unis she's interested in in Oct to see how many students doing the course actually get to go abroad.
f) Non RG unis have other benefits e.g. DD loved that Keele offers extra language qualifications.

Are any of those crazy assumptions!?

Hi,
As a foreign that hasn't gone through the English system I'm sorry but I really have to say that this is the most ridiculous system that I've ever seen.
Predicted grades aren't real, it's just a guess, nothing else. How on earth can anyone get a place at university with grades that haven't been achieved yet???? It's just ridiculous.
Surely applying after results day (as they do pretty much in every other single country) makes way more sense.
Universities would know this way what grades the students have and would average an entrance grade in a much more clear and fair way.
Regarding science subjects getting the lowest grades, this is completely normal as the subjects are way more difficult and brings me to the next point: boundaries! Why? this is again crazy. Exams should have a numerical mark without comparing students with their peers, so no need for boundaries. This is how it works pretty much everywhere else and it's the reason why (generally) science degrees have a much lower entrance mark than humanities courses where people tend to achieve higher grades.
The system doesn't make any sense and it's incredibly unfair.
Let's hope this changes at some point because it's shambles!

Yes, totally true re the difference in difficulty of subject that is not at all taken into account. Have DC's friends who have very wisely chosen more humanities based or less sciency subjects e.g. Economics, Geography and they're getting A* predictions in those but they are getting A predictions in Maths (or lower).

You'd hope unis would consider:
Astar + Astar + Astar in Drama, Geography, History/Economy
= the same as =
A + A/B + B/C in Maths, Physics and Chemistry

Because it's way harder getting the top grades in the sciences. People say that the same percentage of kids get A* across subjects but that is discounting the fact that a lot of the STEM subjects are highly self selected by those kids who achieve all 8/9s at GCSEs so are more academic.

If anything there should be MORE kids getting the top grades in STEM than in some of the other subjects (not saying all other subjects btw).

Crazy, unfair system!

"Have DC's friends who have very wisely chosen more humanities based or less sciency subjects

Crazy, unfair system!"

But that doesn't help them at all where courses require specific subjects.

For example, I just checked at the university where I studied and their current requirements as to subjects are very specific indeed:

"Astar Astar A to include Astar A star in Mathematics and Further Mathematics"

Although, to be fair, for those not taking further maths they specify:

"Astar Astar Astar to include Astar in Mathematics "

So that may be a case where it works to do some other humanities (Back in the day, I did maths, chemistry & history and they were happy with that)

My DD actually did a very similar course at a different university, this is what they say now:

"Grades: A* AA

A * in Mathematics required. Further Mathematics preferred. If you are studying both then the A can be in either subject. Other preferred subjects include Chemistry, Economics, Physics and Statistics."

How on earth can anyone get a place at university with grades that haven't been achieved yet????

They don't. They get an offer subject to achieving certain grades.

Same as you might get a job offer subject to references.

Or offer on a house subject to surveys.

@titchy It's not comparable at all.
References for a new job are based on something that has already been achieved, it's done. You have already done a job and you only need a written prove to show a future employer. You've already earn it.
"Predicted grades" are only that, a prediction about a future event that may or may not happen.
The whole concept of allocating university places based on a system that "predicts the future" it's just shocking.

@pgtips2 bollocks.
I know kids who find math relatively easy but would struggle to write an essay. I know kids who do well in both and get A stars in both.
And of course unis take into account the subject - you aren't going to do economics without Math and FM (if offered), you aren't going to do English without essay subjects. So what does it matter? You take subjects as they relate to your degree. And results are curved - a 60% result may get you an A in Physics but you may need a 75% to get an A in History. It doesn't follow that Physics is harder than History, it's just different.

@mondaytosunday there is always a few exceptions however to ipretend that subjects like Sociology, Psicology and so on are at the same level than Maths, FM, Physics or Chemistry it's just ridiculous.
Not trying to offend anyone here as I did a humanities degree.
Achieving a lower percentage in Physics is still way harder than a higher percentange in History.

Achieving a lower percentage in Physics is still way harder than a higher percentange in History.

Actual evidence from each of the exam boards, please?

You can provide this, can't you...?