Durham Law

[Maggiethecat]

Anyone or their DC have experience of Durham Law?

Dd met grades and is considering deferring her start to next year as she is quite young. She is having a wobble about Durham, think head tells her their degree is better regarded but heart tells her she’d prefer Manchester to live in.

What’s been your (DC) experience?

I have a child at Durham and a child at Manchester- neither doing law although they both have friends who are (at each Uni) who are really happy.

Durham and Manchester are VERY different unis and cities - which Durham college is your dc provisionally allocated to? My dd is at Chads and she says the hill colleges would be more of a typical Uni hall of residence experience.

The unis are also at the opposite ends of the spectrum size wise.

What sort of things is your dc into? Manchester is a city with very cool clubs open till 6/7 am - Durhams clubs are the opposite and close at 2.

at Durham it will feel like you know everyone - Manchester less so.

Most students in Manchester live in Fallowfield which is about 30 mins on the bus from Uni or a short cycle ride. Durham everything is walking distance.

As far as 2nd year accommodation the crunch time after teacher assessed grades has passed and neither had problems finding accommodation. Paying £120 in Manchester and £150 in Durham in Fallowfield / Viaduct respectively.

my advice would be for your dc to think carefully about which city is the best match for them. My dc are both v happy.

Thanks @KittyMcKitty

She’s been assigned to John Snow.

Size difference was not very noticeable to her as she visited MU out of term time. I had an appreciation as I visited in term time with older Dd a couple of years ago and was amazed at the large number of students moving around campus - it was almost military like!

She’ll want to continue music making, orchestra and/or chamber and thinks that clubbing will be important to her too (hence contributing to her lean toward MU).

I think she was quite impressed by the MU head of law talk reminding people that they should try to select a city they think they’ll enjoy as life satisfaction will influence academic performance.

She also understands that Durham has a higher proportion of private school students which she feels she’d like a change from.

But she is aware that she may have greater job opportunities with the Durham law degree.

She’ll have to decide soon as she may need Durham to release her.

If she decides to apply to Manchester for 2025 entry, she would decline her place at Durham. She would then apply to Manchester with grades in hand.

She would need to decline Durham and hope Manchester would accept her via clearing (no guarantee they would even have any places for law) for 2024 entry.

Thanks for making that clear @Dearover

One good thing is that if she does decide on MU for 2025 entry, grades in hand, she wouldn’t need to re-sit the LNAT as MU doesn’t require it.

I am a lawyer (as are 4 of my children - youngest 2 qualified earlier this year - three of them went to Bristol - each rejected Durham in favour of Bristol as we are in London so Bristol is closer). i went to Manchester because Durham rejected me (a long time ago) for my LLB. I am from the NE. Durham is better and in my view choose Durham. (MY father and uncle went to Durham) . My children's cousin was at Durham (from a comprehensive and certainly had no problems mixing with all kinds of people). Manchester was fine for me and I have a good career but not many lawyers would choose Manchester over Durham

If she’s deferring then no need to make a decision yet. Defer Durham. Got to both open days again in Autumn. If she’s got friends at either possibly even have a weekend or night out there.
If she decides Manchester she can give up Durham and apply to Manchester early 25.
They are so different that she must have a preference.
Fwiw we did Durham law open day. I’m a solicitor with a law degree and I was very impressed they clearly have a very good well run course. My dc didn’t like Durham (too small) and hated the vibe from the large public school contingent so it was a no, no matter how good the course. They need to be somewhere that suits them.

@Xenia - she’s conflicted bcos Durham’s course is said to be very good but she prefers the feel of MU. She went to an independent school and thinks she’ll meet people from a wider range of backgrounds at MU.

@Investinmyself - think that’s where she’s headed. She emailed Durham re possible deferral and waits to hear from them. She can then take a few months to figure things out.

She found Durham small too and reckons that Manchester will be more exciting.

I appreciate that you have to be happy where you are. Am just not sure that the MU course has the rigor that could be good for her. Maybe another city/course but of course it’s her shout 🤨

Has she thought about Bristol? Bristols law course is as good as Durham but it’s a more vibrant interesting city and the private school contingent is more diluted than at Durham. I can see why she doesn’t want Durham, it has a certain look and feel which may not appeal. None of my 4 kids would even consider it as it seems to attract the worst most awful misogynist tosser male cohort from the private schools around here. The type they spent years avoiding at school. The poor girls who end up there from our area are usually lovely though. Odd.
I agree though with the others, Manchester is not as good at law as Durham. And I way that both as a v successful lawyer and a Manchester grad! (Non law)

@Delphigirl - it’s a sore point of hers 😂. She thinks Bristol would suit for the reasons you give (plus her sister is there!) but she wasn’t offered.

It’s a shame because her grades way exceed the Bristol requirements but perhaps they want a higher LNAT score than Durham.

Since she wants a gap year anyway I did ask her if she’d consider reapplying so she could have a shot again at Bristol but she doesn’t want to do LNAT again.

Oh no, I’m really sorry Maggie! Aurgh!
Well I suspect the other unis I could recommend as comparable to or better than Durham for law (UCL, Kings) also require LNAT.
I don’t know many people who have gone to Durham and dislike it. I think one option might be to persuade her to start Durham and if she loathes it in the first month, drop out before the date that fees are due and brace herself to take LNAT again and go for Bristol if that’s what she really wants.

@Maggiethecat I think the difference between Durham and Manchester in terms of law degree is that Manchester is top for regional law recruitment. So many law grads stay in the area. If she’s looking at London, Durham is the better of the two. So I would reflect on what role she wants after uni.

LNAT tells you which unis need to sift applicants and they are popular courses.

You really can avoid students you might not gel with at a uni. It’s a big place. Durham students escape to Newcastle for nights out. Manchester has entertainment on the doorstep of course. As does Bristol. Bristol grads tend to focus on London too. So I would say she should think about her career and not just clubbing.

I should say DD is a non law Bristol grad but is a barrister in London. How you navigate career choices matters.

It’s probably easy for me to say but I think she should just take LNAT again. She only took about a month to prepare last year having decided late that she wanted to do law. I suspect that preparation this time should be easier but of course I’m not the one who has to do it!

Worse case is that she did worse and didn’t get Durham or other desired ones and had to take MU, presuming they offered her again.

She doesn’t want to go the non law route.

“So I would say she should think about her career and not just clubbing’. - I’ve told her that too 😂

seriously though, she is quite switched on and knows these main differences but I do think she needs to mature a bit.

It’s more than just clubbing though.
She’s perhaps not articulating it well but wanting to be with a diverse student group, in a vibrant lively big multicultural city is a valid choice.
It’s no good a course being a few places above in league tables if it’s not where you want to be. You won’t make the most of the opportunities, you won’t thrive.
Manchester uni law has an excellent reputation. Manchester is a great city.
Having done about 8 law open days in quick succession the Durham was a really different feel from the people there. If it’s not for her then I wouldn’t push.
Take some time. Revisit. Encourage her to stand there and think can I see myself here.

@Investinmyself - she said the visit felt ‘flat’ although she did enjoy the law talks.

I think it’s in her nature that she’ll pull off a good class of degree wherever she goes but I would like for her to be engaged and excited about her course and student life.

While she was in her talks I was on a campus tour with student ambassadors- 2 overseas girls and they were really lovely but I can put that snapshot into perspective for what it was.

They both have open days in September. Maybe do an overnight at both and then take stock. Spend time in the city and at the university. A second look sometimes helps.

I’ve been chatting with her and she is having a bit of a wobble about leaving home. She wants her own independence but is not sure she’s ready for uni. I suppose she’s not the only one with a bit of anxiety at the moment.

She thinks it’s comforting that Durham is only an hour from home 😊

I’m trying to get both DC into the mindset that they’re not coming back home 😂

Durham is a very easy place to move away too - the college support is great and it makes a small Uni even smaller (I think there were 140 freshers in my dd college last year) - if she’s catered that also makes it easy and with all th college bops, formals and other social stuff it’s very easy. Dd says it’s like boarding school with wine (not that she went to boarding school). The Bailey colleges seem to be mainly students from private school but dd (state educated) has had no discrimination in her college.

Manchester is big and very urban. I would suggest visiting Fallowfield as that would be where she would most likely life both in hall and in rented. My ds loves Manchester and dd loves Durham - it’s horses for courses!

Dd was only just 18 when she started (and 5.5 hrs from home) and felt very welcomed at Durham. With Freps etc it really makes meeting people v easy.

@Investinmyself Its top for law in the NW. Not if you want a London job where Oxbridge rules. League tables don’t matter in some ways. It’s where you want to work and what your ambition is. Diversity at uni won’t help
you get a law job. So what is uni for? When it’s law, surely it’s a job in law? Presumably the dd here wants this too. It’s important to think which avenue of law and where.

For me it was the opposite - Durham would have suited me down to the ground as I spent my time in Mancehster in various choirs, touring abroad with the chamber choir etc and none of the clubs etc things were relevant to me although we had brilliant law lecturers including now known as Lady Hale (Britain's most senior female judge these days). it is possible had I got to Durham I would not have been just about top and won law prizes etc whereas at Manchester I was one of the best so perhaps it is not as simple as always go to the hardest to get into place.

I really think however she will find state school people in Durham (if she wants to mix with those in particular) and can go to Newcastle (where I am from) for club nights and will have a good time. I am not a great fan of gap years as you can lose your impetus for study and sometimes lose your way rather than just pressing on.

I am a big fan of gap years. DD1 did a foundation year locally as a pause before her degree and it was very good for her. She was young in her year group and not ready to leave home. If Durham is only an hour from you then that's easier. DD has had a very good year academically, she got a high first on her first three assessments and again for her end of year submissions. and yes I am very proud as she found sixth form very difficult

@Maggiethecat Can she practice law at home? Are there opportunities? Three years away with others often sharpens what their career will look like.

DS is at Durham and was also just 18 when he went. Agree with Kitty that the college system makes the transition just a little easier. It would also give your DD more music options. My goddaughter (state educated by the way) was in John Snow and persuaded the college to fund a group music trip to Germany (can't remember which genre).

One thing both have found is that have made their strong friendships through their college and their activities - her music and DS sports. The self-catering hill colleges really are just like halls at any other university. DS's flat comprised 3 international students, a girl from south of England, and a girl and him both from Yorkshire.

As others have said there's Newcastle only 15 mins away on the train which timewise is probably the same as getting across Manchester to a club.

I don't have personal experience of either uni but trained at a top ten firm (silver circle) with an intake of approx 50 trainees, I would say about half came from Oxbridge but the rest were a pretty even spread - Durham, Bristol, Manchester, UCL, KCL, Leeds etc etc.

I think your DD should go to where she wants and thinks she'll have the best experience. Manchester would not set her back at all, it's a very reputable university!