Neurodiversity at Oxbridge

[Cheesesamosa]

DC who has adhd starts at Cambridge in October. I’ve read many times on here that neurodiversity is relatively common at Oxbridge and they are very used to dealing with / supporting it. However I’ve just come across the admission report for last year and it’s actually really low in terms of declared disability. 1.4% with ASD and 2.3% with adhd, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc.

These figures come as a surprise though, so far, disability services seem proactive. Interested to hear experiences and advice from those with neurodiverse DC currently attending?

I came on to say the same thing as @jeanne16. I don't want anyone to come away with the idea that all Oxbridge students are neurodiverse so their kids will slot right in with no issues.
DS is a STEM student at Oxford and isn't aware of any ND students amongst his subject cohort, sports teams or friends he socialises with.

Most students aren't going to have a diagnosis - because they loved school and their special interest!

If you are studying STEM there will be ND whether you can see it or not.

I went to DH's college reunion with him. Loads of discussion of burnout from people with all sorts of degrees. And their kids getting diagnoses...

I went to Oxbridge and agree with @jeanne16 and @BackToWhereItAllBegan.

Some pps are conflating cleverness with neurodiversity

ND DC can also be clever, socialise, play sports and be talented in the arts, @jeanne16 🙄

Oxbridge can be great for ND DC, living in college with a smaller number of people is less overwhelming than a huge university, it’s easier to get to know your course mates when you share tutorials/supervisions, there are scouts/bedders and full catering so you have more spoons for everything else if you don’t have to worry about shopping, cooking and cleaning, even better if the college has accommodation for all 3 years, living in a shared house with friends can be tough if you are ND and struggle with keeping on top of chores or compromising or noise or never being able to shut yourself away from things (however it affects you).

I agree IME (and my DCs) that there are a lot more ND students at Oxbridge than those who have declared it to their college - either because they have chosen not to disclose or they don’t have a diagnosis because they are high achievers, rule followers and good at masking (not just socially, academically their high abilities may compensate for and hide a spiky profile).

Support seems to be very good nowadays but my top tip for any Oxbridge student (ND or not) is to ask for help if you need it, academically or pastorally, don’t expect it to be offered if you don’t ask.

or they don’t have a diagnosis because they are high achievers, rule followers and good at masking (not just socially, academically their high abilities may compensate for and hide a spiky profile)

What would the purpose or benefit be in seeking a diagnosis in cases like this?

Like @jeanne16 ’s DC, my Oxbridge DC are not ND. They are sporty, sociable and good at passing exams. None of DS’s Cambridge friends (engineers, Vet med and economists) are ND.
One of DD’s close Oxford friends and tutorial partner is ND. Tutors described her as an exceptional student and college were very supportive of her individual needs. (She originally applied to a large college but that college felt that a smaller college would be a better fit.)

For mine, currently going through the process to get diagnosed or not, it's about understanding her own brain and behaviour, besides knowing what support to ask for, and that she can ask. Being able to access advice from relevant experts about studying and learning techniques, as an alternative to the general advice that doesn't suit. Lastly, provision in exams when the demands are much more challenging (of course, but especially so for ND students) to allow her to do herself justice.

They are not, two of my dds studied at Oxford, achieved first class degrees and neither are neurodiverse.

Because just because it isn’t obvious to outsiders like teachers or medical professionals that a person is struggling, doesn’t mean that they aren’t, @pivoinerose. We now recognise that women and girls with autism often present differently from boys. Should women who weren’t diagnosed as children but have struggled throughout life but still managed to hold down a job and meet a partner not seek a diagnosis?

Yes, of course, one of the criteria for diagnosis of ASD in adults is that the person feels that it is impacting them negatively.

I’m probably not explaining that very well… If you are ND but clever and achieve well academically, polite, well behaved at school, good at masking socially, nobody notices that you are actually struggling until it all goes horribly wrong.

Would totally agree with what @TenSheds said @BobandRobertaSmith said. Intelligence and work ethic can totally mask ADHD (and ASD) in school as the child still does well despite being like the proverbial swan with legs frantically paddling out of sight . The overwhelm, anxiety and impact on mental health when undiagnosed is significant. Support, access arrangements and medication where appropriate can help to level things out. My DD is going to Cambridge (not stem) and she needs those things to achieve her potential. I just have to hope she will be able to advocate enough for herself there to access help when she needs it.

Should women who weren’t diagnosed as children but have struggled throughout life but still managed to hold down a job and meet a partner not seek a diagnosis?

I'm wondering why they would seek a diagnosis and whether it would help them or hinder?

Everyone is different. Having a label attached to you if you're not in need of medication is probably unhelpful isn't it?

Why are people so keen to label everyone as ND? The comment above saying all STEM students are ND is quite absurd. Are we saying we must all be identical to some predetermined norm, otherwise we are ND. What possible benefit can that bring?

DN is at Cambridge and is not ND. However he says that a significant number of students very clearly are. There are also a significant number who have sone sort of gender belief that means they do not identify as male or female.

my neighbours DD went three years ago and in her first year said she was the only person on her floor who did not have a gender identity

BFs DS is at Oxford and is neuro diverse

Agreed. Neither DC's are ND, nor are their friends. They are all just very bright and sparky, committed and competitive individuals. That can lead to some mental health issues, but that's not ND.

I think for high achievers who do well in the school system, the issues of neurodiversity can sometimes not arise until later life.

In my friend group of five girls from my college, I was diagnosed with ADHD in later life, three of the others subsequently think they are autistic, they've all held down very high pressured jobs. But if you'd asked us at the time we would have said no, not at all.

This also happens in some jobs. I worked in a creative profession before having my children, and did well at it. Turns out it was full of people with ADHD - but we all were very successful again. Since then though, people have had enormous problems adjusting to other kinds of work, loads have had diagnoses of ADHD, many more are dealing with ND children...

None of which is to say that everyone at Oxbridge is, but I do think, based on experience, that extreme giftedness is part of the spectrum of ND.

@user8464987632 There's a big overlap between identifying as non-binary or as the opposite gender and ND.

My DC with ADHD graduated from Oxford with a first in a science last year. For them, I think it was the superpower that allowed them to achieve a first, playing two sports at blues level, and still have a rich social life. Yes there was anxiety and plenty of dropped balls along the way, but for them, it was the right thing. The college system was very supportive. There were definitely other ND people in their social group too

I was at Cambridge in the 90s.

There were plenty of “quirky” people. And lots of friends from then now have DC with a diagnosis, as does my DC. I am very like my DC, as is DH.

I did much better at Cambridge, and much more happily, than I had done at school (where I was definitely considered super bright but super lazy with no motivation).

The things specific to Cambridge that helped me cope where I might not have at other universities were:
-having someone come in daily to clean my room and empty the bin
-having three meals a day prepared for me
-living in a small community of like-minded individuals.
-the fact that the workload was so intense - this is an odd one, but having to complete three pieces of work a week for eight weeks meant I didn’t have any procrastination time, I was constantly in the last-minute-pull-it-out-of-the-bag zone. I only had two days for each piece of work - which is probably the same time as I would have spent if we had just had one assignment to hand in at the end of term, and the whole term to complete it, but it would have been preceded by seven weeks of procrastination and associated self-loathing.
-the fact that the work was challenging meant it kept my interest (of course it helped that I was studying the only school subject I was interested in). I had to try, for the first time in my life; I had previously breezed through GCSEs and A levels without a stroke of work.
-the fact that if you didn’t keep up with the work there were no sanctions (because the only work that counts is the exams at the end). That made me actually want to do the work, whereas at school I had hated being told what to do.
-the fact that everything hinged on the final exams suited me perfectly. I would have struggled with doing a dissertation or extended essay; coursework is not for me!

I didn’t really realise these things about myself at the time (although I knew I didn’t like coursework). I just thought “wahay, this is FUN!”.

I think most of this was exactly why Oxford worked so well for my DC. They were much happier than at school and found friendships much easier.

Sorry about all the 'they' and the namechange. I have too much info under my normal username that would be too outing put together with this stuff

As far as ASD goes, some actual research:

"The students in Cambridge University did not differ from the randomly selected control group, but scientists (including mathematicians) scored significantly higher than both humanities and social sciences students, confirming an earlier study that autistic conditions are associated with scientific skills. Within the sciences, mathematicians scored highest. This was replicated in Group 4, the Mathematics Olympiad winners scoring significantly higher than the male Cambridge humanities students. 6% of the student sample scored 32+ on the AQ. On interview, 11 out of 11 of these met three or more DSM-IV criteria for AS/HFA, and all were studying sciences/mathematics, and 7 of the 11 met threshold on these criteria."

https://autismodiario.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BaronCohenWheelwrightEtAl2001.pdf

I wonder what the actual percentage of the population it is that are ND?

With NHS waiting lists (not surprisingly given the huge numbers of referrals) now 7 years long for adhd diagnosis in my area, the only folk being diagnosed are those who can/are prepared to pay private.

It anecdotally seems to me now that it's the rich kids getting the extra time, with some poor kid who is far more severe, waiting for diagnosis.

I’m slightly surprised at so many Oxbridge STEM graduates making very bold statistical statements like “almost all” about the neurodiversity of their fellow students.

My experience at Cambridge in the 90s, and that of my DH at Oxford at the same time, is that there absolutely were lots of people who were neurodiverse, but they were not the majority, not even the majority within STEM subjects. I went to a reunion recently and the majority were definitely all fairly boring neurotypical middle aged people!

I think this is very true. I think ND, and ASD in particular, stands out less in certain environments, and that people are less likely to seek a diagnosis when with “ their tribe.”

Several of the people I know who were at oxbridge have ND children.