State vs Private at Cambridge - admissions question on school activities

[Mapletreelane]

DS1 ( non selective state school but in a leafy green suburb) is looking to apply for Computer Science at Cambridge next year ( Y12 currently) . He is researching his application and compiling all his super curricular achievements but has noted that private school kids are far more likely to have competed in maths challenges and olympiads - his school offered Bebras one year in Y7 and that is about it - his school have never entered anything else. Do the admissions teams take that into account, that his peers at private and grammar school will have taken part in so many more events that state schools tend not to enter? He is getting quite worried about it. TIA

.

Yes they do. However, they themselves provide suggestions for things which anyone can do. Don't forget that the majority of students are state educated. DD got her place at Oxford for PPE without shadowing MPs, winning essay contests, writing articles for the Economist or speaking at the UN (although Malala did!)

Has he looked into the St John’s program and essay competitions? That can give another chance to shine/have something to talk about. Sign up for the open days too of course

They'll take into account what they've had access to via school, definitely. But they're also looking for self-starters and motivated learners so they will look at whether they've taken the initiative/had sufficient interest in their topic to seek opportunities out for themselves.

There are Cambridge masterclasses - see Subject Masterclasses | Undergraduate Study (cam.ac.uk) and loads of other opportunities (often for state school kids only). Also, the PS holds much less weight at Oxbridge than other unis. For CS one thing that will really matter is how he goes on the TMUA (assuming OFC top A level predicted grades) so he should be looking at that. He should look on TSR to see what other CS applicants have done.

This made me laugh!

Thanks, yeah he has some great super curricular work, he went to an open day last week and loved it. He's planning to revise for TMUA over summer. Got some other universities he really likes as well, but obviously Cambridge was quite special. Thanks for your help.

My son and daughter enter essay comps and math comps off their own bat. You don’t need to necessarily require your school to enter you. Good luck to your son.

Cambridge do not really give a fuck about extracurricular ( unless medicine)

Your reflections on things is more important than doing stuff.But at the end of the day they know the PS is often not solely the students own work.Cambridge attach much more weight to their own aptitude tests, interview and grades

I don't think Oxbridge attaches much importance at all to personal statement type activities and instead uses grades, interviews and their own tests. You see people who have won national essay competitions, some get in, some get rejected. Some who get in have done very little extra curricular but are very knowledgeable and passionate about their subject. My DD was at a comp and did the UKMT things, you do need a school to enter you though she asked school to do it, and got to Olympiad etc but it wasn't why she got an Oxford offer, at least directly - that was no of GCSEs, quantity at 8s and 9s, 3 A star predictions, very high entry test score and interview ok. The UKMT did help with independent thought and people capable of doing well at it as opposed to being taught or tutored do tend to be successful as they look for independent learners in interview. There are other ways of showing that though and personal statement is only say 5 mins of 1 interview and more for a chat / ice breaker.

There is a difference between extracurricular, which does not interest them, and super curricular, which they specifically say does interest them… There is plenty of information about this from the university, including the following:

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/super-curricular_suggestions.pdf www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/super-curricular_suggestions.pdf]]]]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice, and yes there is loads that do not involve representing the UK abroad in a maths olympiad! He's just told me he's been looking at a lot of these already, so I am clearly behind the curve!

but they do like to see supracurricular which is what the OP is referring to

Oxford does indeed score the personal statement. They set out clearly on their website how much weighting this holds at each stage. But yes it will score more for reflection on what is inspiring them rather than a list of activities.

I’m currently reading our Oxbridge draft personal statements and the best ones show understanding and potential for the subject and an intellectual curiosity. Far better to have read a couple of books, or watched an online lecture (ie cheap activities) and be able to discuss eloquently, than it is to list a load of expensive achievements.
He really shouldn’t worry about the ‘quality’ of his super curricular. More important to concentrate on HOW he writes about them.

If he hasn’t started already, he needs to get writing so that there is time for him to receive feedback on his personal statement and improve it. Has he seen any exemplar statements? If not, search online and also have a look for YouTube videos from current CS students. You can often find really good tips from current students.

The important thing isn’t what you have done, but rather how you reflect on that and link it to your subject and your developing interest in it. A personal statement that reflects maturely and insightfully on a book they have read and how it changes their insight into their subject is going to be better than one that simply lists dozens of amazing prizes and accomplishments but without saying what they have learned from any of them.

Oxbridge will have expectations commeasurate to your area / background, not whether you went to comp / private. They have a tendancy to attract wealthy white people whether they’re educated at private or state — but disadvantaged bame kids can be found in either because some bame parents will prioritise education over everything (including buying or even renting a whole house).

Eg DSD’s boyfriend is black. Went to private but commuted an hour each way to his school in Kent due to gang problems at his school. Single mum. Absent Dad. Mum went into debt to send kids to private and they had no money for nice things. He got to Cambridge on the same course as DSD by articulating, amazingly according to his feedback, why he wanted to study the subject.

Really helpful thank you

This is great thank you. He has been researching loads think this is what has lead to the concern over lack of tournaments. But feel much more reassured. I just want to feel it is a level playing field and they are judged on their intellect and ability rather than opportunities that are not available to all.

Wow, what a wondeful young man amd mother. Kinds of puts into perspective me moaning that DS hasn't entered any maths tournaments! Thank you for sharing.

There is absolutely no incentive for Oxbridge tutors not to judge based on intellect and potential- given that they have to then spend the next 3 or 4 years teaching these students in groups of 1 or 2 people. Their working lives are much more enjoyable if they admit students who are bright and passionate about the subject and will work hard. Spending 3 years giving tutorials to a motivated and able student is a joy. Spending 3 years giving tutorials to someone who doesn’t really care and does the bare minimum or who isn’t very able and can’t take feedback is very frustrating. The intensity of the tutorial system and the huge commitment to each student it demands from tutors is the biggest safeguard for the fairness of admissions (and the reason tutors are willing to put on the many extra hours of overtime every admissions round).

The biggest factor is the interview. The interview is basically a mini tutorial, so they are assessing how engaged and responsive the student is. They're not so much interested in outcomes of exams and competitions (everyone's done well enough to get to interview) as how much they have explored the subject outside the school curriculum. Not quite sure what that would look like in computer science. Perhaps finding out about codes not covered at A Level?

Computing is more about problem-solving and computing thinking. Op's son attended the Bebras, and his good performance in the Bebras showed signs of good abilities for the CS course.

I'd have thought computer science was a subject where it was very possible to show engagement beyond the curriculum - by doing their own coding projects of some sort.
(My dd did engineering, she'd done things like designing and building robots, helped run the school robotics club for younger kids, that sort of thing. )