How competitive are the Mechanical Engineering Meng ?

[11plusNewbie]

Hi
we are starting our research on Mechanical Engineering courses (Meng) in the UK and within 2 to 4 hours of London. We wondering how competitive they are i.e.
Southampton or Bristol are saying their typical offer is AAA. however does a set of UCAS predicted grades at AAA is enough to get an offer ? or do we in fact need to apply with AAA in order to receive an offer. A level subjects include maths and Physics but not further maths.
Thanks

Hi, OP -

This is a very interesting question. I don’t quite get your formatting; I assume the last sentence is asking whether in reality two A stars are needed in order to get the standard offer of A star AA?

Some selecting universities do make offers in batches and start from the top. Although I don’t know about Mech Eng specifically, Bristol has a reputation for doing this in some subjects. Southampton, to my knowledge (as a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor), does not.

Southampton is superb in Mech Eng but doesn’t have a reputation for giving itself airs. My guess is that a candidate predicted the standard offer there with a generally good application will get an offer. Bristol? Slightly less confident.

BTW there is great flexibility between the BSc and the MSubject for the first two years at least. Students across the UK have to be making good progress at the end of Y2 to remain on MSubject, and universities are happy to continue taking fees from others who meet the requirements and wish to transfer from the BSc. I mention this because a few STEM programmes have lower entry requirements for the BSc.

hi @poetryandwine

sorry about the formatting the bold characters mean Astar indeed !

I am very interested in the fluidity of Bsc and Meng, my son went to one of the open days and that's what he gathered as well. so from this then he could have a Meng aspirational and good safe Bsc with the hope that if he does well then he may be able to go on the Meng or any case do a master's somewhere else ?

so from this then he could have a Meng aspirational and good safe Bsc with the hope that if he does well then he may be able to go on the Meng or any case do a master's somewhere else ?

Yes.
When my dd was applying (for elec&electronic not mech), Southampton explicitly offered a 'free insurance' (AAA for the MEng, but AAA would get you a place to start BEng but be able to do MEng if the first two years went well. I don't know if that's done on other courses - may be worth investigation.

I don't know about how competitive the mech eng courses are, and whether FM makes a difference for it, but the usual advice re applying to a mix of aspirational, realistic and fallback always applies...if your DS is predicted AAA then I'd have thought it reasonable that a couple of his five should match that, then maybe he can choose a couple of AAA and an AAB? I'm not sure if your 4 hrs is car or train but either way that is quite a large area so there should be quite a few good options.

Yes, I agree with this post. I’ve never heard of a British STEM course without the possibility of movement in both directions

PS As you probably know one can do MEng or a separate MSc but not both.

DP started MEng at Southampton as a mature student. He had a decision point where he could exit on BEng and took it. (Much older student, new baby, wanted to work). He left the door open to do a more tailored MSc which we are looking at now.

A younger student like your DS, I'd assume would just carry on through.

As for Southampton, DP failed the first year by a small margin and took it again solo. This is not uncommon and was a risk. Newcastle offered him a longer course with a foundation year and Southampton didn't. He was probably going to have to catch up on math either way!

Hard to say what the experience would have been non lockdown. But he said very theoretical. Teachers who would rather research than teach and not always good. The dissertation projects were very interesting though, and his supervisor for that was brilliant. They still stay in touch. Her connections and support lead to his first job and he's still there. I think overall we are glad he did it.

One caveat with Southampton and I'm assuming most- They will sell you a dream on some facilities like the towing tank. Bear in mind undergrads don't really get their hands on that!

I think there were also students on the BEng who were allowed to stay on. Again at that decision point after year two. Most students do prefer and pursue the MEng if they can.

DP with his BEng does not work as an engineer but in an adjacent technical role. He knows to move he needs that masters and to pursue chartered status!

We were at the Liverpool open day last Fri where they said that everyone has the option to move between BEng and MEng for Mech Eng after end of year 2 irrespective of which you started on. Only rule is that you needed to be averaging at least 55% to make the switch from B to M. So could be a strategic move to apply for BEng (AAB) rather than MEng (AAA)

So could be a strategic move to apply for BEng (AAB) rather than MEng (AAA)

I don't know if that's good advice or not tbh, if it was a good idea they'd all apply for the BEng. Someone who wants a professional engineering career will want to do an MEng...I'd have thought they'd prefer candidates who applied for one commensurate with predictions. (This is my speculation not informed advice!)

Since MScs have been mentioned - hopefully you're aware that these are much more expensive than doing an integrated Masters. The latter is an undergraduate degree, with lower tuition fees and a four year undergraduate loan. The MSc would be a separate loan which they have to repay concurrently with the undergrad one. There may be specific reasons for wanting to do one that provides particular skills (obviously great if an employer sponsors it for advanced training!) but in general a U.K. student will be better off doing the integrated degree.

One reason to apply for an MSubject is to organise the financing up front. Much the easiest thing to do.

Dd got into one of the places you mentioned, offer was aaa, predicted aaab, got better. Course was very competitive though, 2 lads she knew with same prediction didn't get offers

I would also add that accommodation in the second year is easier in Southampton, or rather less stressful or expensive. As cities Bristol is bigger but bigger isn't always better. I'm guessing you are overseas from your post, connection to Heathrow from Bristol is easiest by hourly bus that takes around 2 hours, other companies operate too so pretty decent

These courses are bound to be competitive, because they'll have a lot of the kids with lots of A predictions applying to them. But some of those will also be applying to oxbridge or imperial ... they're very competitive too but it's still worth applying if predicted grades match typical offer. It's the same logic really - nothing ventured, nothing gained, it's worth spending one or two of the 5 slots at your top end.

The other thing that may make a difference is whether an applicant has good supercurricular experience - many would-be engineers will have. And another question is whether these courses interview (all DDs EEE/gen eng choices did, I don't know if other engineering disciplines do), and how well an individual is likely to cope with that

On the transfer between BEng/MEng, can I ask how practical this is if aiming to do a year in industry? My son is really interested in doing a course with a year out - but if, say, you start on BEng with Y3 in industry - but then also decide to switch to MEng, how does that work timing-wise with making applications for placements/securing accommodation...? I'm struggling to see how that would be possible and am not sure what he would he best applying for.

Do the uni offer MEng with a year in industry?

Yes I think so - but this is more of a general question as not shortlisted all unis yet. Most seem to offer BEng or MEng, both with/without year in industry - so 4 potential routes to decide between. I think for BEng Y3 is in industry and for MEng looks to be Y4 - hence my confusion...

If it's not clear enough from their websites, that's the sort of detail your DC needs to contact the specific admissions tutors about, I think.

When dc go abroad to study, it’s usually y3. Some might do this for BEng and make it 4 years but for MEng eg Loughborough, Bristol and Sheffield it’s 5 years MEng with year in industry. Therefore in my view, there might be a question over whether this is worth it. It could be but it’s a long haul. A top placement might be great.

@cakeaddict The reason MEng is preferable is that it gets dc to Chartered Engineer status more quickly. That means a leadership role and more money are available earlier if dc joins a company with an accredited training scheme. It’s a qualification recognised all over the world. The BEng means dc must do a masters or accept they won’t be Chartered for quite a long time. CEng is the top level qualification. You can get chartered via BEng but it takes longer so most do Incorporated Engineer route. IEng.

@TizerorFizz if one was doing a Beng then a Masters straight after, would that not take them to chartered in the same timeframe as an Integrated Masters?

DS is going in to his third year at Southampton doing MEng which he would recommend.

He applied with predicted grades of AAA (no FM) and got the standard A(star) AA offer. He was accepted with AAA - no stars.

This year the course was in clearing for about five minutes at ABB so I think there is considerable leeway on grades and offers. You can see the chances of getting on a course for a given set of grades on the UCAS website.

In terms of B or M - if you want to be an engineer it makes sense to get chartered and not having the Masters makes it harder to get chartered. Getting it out of the way with undergraduate funding arrangements makes total sense.

@11plusNewbie Yes it does. More expensive to do stand alone masters though. Incorporated engineer is for those stopping at BEng.

The MEng gives you the Masters level qualification required to train up for Chartered, and a big advantage is that it’s all part of the same undergrad finance deal.

An MSc is more expensive in terms of fees (and would usually be a full 12 month commitment), and might be something you want to do after working a while because they tend to be more specialised. I’m not sure how maintenance grants work for MScs?

My DS started off on a Mechanical Engineering BEng and moved to the MEng at the start of year 3. At least a high 2:2 was required at the end of 2nd year as the lowest pass grade for the MEng was 2:2. It was a simple process for him to change on to the MEng course.