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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Why does UCAS need job title of highest household earner?

79 replies

arjybarjy · 18/06/2024 19:22

I can understand why UCAS might want some broad details about parents' profession and salary, for equalities monitoring, but why do they ask for the exact job title? Many job titles are unique to the individual, so they are very identifying.

I've recommended that my DC chooses "Prefer not to say" or "Don't Know".

OP posts:
MarchingFrogs · 19/06/2024 14:27

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 19/06/2024 12:54

Half way down page 1 I have decided that everytime I can freestyle my job title it will always be "Head of Jaffa Cake Development"

One of my friends was at one time something like 'Head of QC for <internationally famous confectionery item>'.

Isthisreasonable · 19/06/2024 14:47

MarchingFrogs · 19/06/2024 14:27

One of my friends was at one time something like 'Head of QC for <internationally famous confectionery item>'.

But no doubt your friend would have entered her job title as "Head of Quality Control" and omitted the company name. It's really not rocket science.

cointos · 19/06/2024 14:51

It annoys me that HESA wants to know the sexual orientation of university staff and students.

cointos · 19/06/2024 14:55

Posted before I finished

I hadn't thought about job titles being outing but SF shouldn't need to know them anyway. They serve no purpose compared to salaries.

arjybarjy · 19/06/2024 16:10

Isthisreasonable · 19/06/2024 14:47

But no doubt your friend would have entered her job title as "Head of Quality Control" and omitted the company name. It's really not rocket science.

It would be her friend's daughter filling in the form, not her friend. Hopefully the daughter would have the presence of mind to consult with her mum about what to put, but to comply with GDPR there needs to be something in the privacy notice to require the mum's consent.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 19/06/2024 16:47

arjybarjy · 19/06/2024 16:10

It would be her friend's daughter filling in the form, not her friend. Hopefully the daughter would have the presence of mind to consult with her mum about what to put, but to comply with GDPR there needs to be something in the privacy notice to require the mum's consent.

My 17 year old wouldn't know my exact job title or whether me or his dad were the higher paid worker without asking us, so I feel pretty chill about this.

I want this job though... Lybraryan!

Sibilantseamstress · 19/06/2024 18:33

HappyCompromise · 19/06/2024 10:14

Oh OP this is just the start. If you do student loan and he’s ever off PAYE for a period and living with you - you will also be asked to disclose all your bank account records to prove you are supporting him. It’s wild. My mother refused that as well but they constantly threatened you with the stick of emergency interest rates.

What! The standard student loan?

HappyCompromise · 19/06/2024 20:31

Sibilantseamstress · 19/06/2024 18:33

What! The standard student loan?

Yep. Same with spouses not just children.

FiveFoxes · 19/06/2024 21:39

I found my paper copy UCAS form from the 1990s which has a box with my father's job title written in. So not a new thing!

thing47 · 20/06/2024 12:10

I think GDPR regulations are much stricter now, though – and rightly so given all the potential for misuse of that information.

@arjybarjy I totally get the difference between a consenting adult choosing to fill in this specific information about themselves, and a teenager providing it on behalf of somebody else. It's not that the details are necessarily secret, it's that supplying them requires informed consent from the person whose details they actually are, right?

arjybarjy · 20/06/2024 12:16

Exactly @thing47.

My son recently had to provide a bank statement for something and the privacy statement said something along the lines of "if you provide personal information about a third party we will assume you have obtained their permission". There were several transactions with his friends' names in, and obviously he wasn't going to get their permission, so I advised him to redact them.

OP posts:
MollyButton · 20/06/2024 12:18

The problem with vague titles is for example: Consultant. That could mean a very senior Doctor, a wide range of Business jobs, a lot of IT people or even retail sales.
UCAS is covered by the Statistical Code of Practice, so handles information correctly and securely.
And how many 17 year olds know their parents full job title?

allthevitamins · 20/06/2024 12:37

Am I the only one now super invested in what the completely unique job title is? Or have I missed it? <derails thread, sorry>

allthevitamins · 20/06/2024 12:40

I mean, if you were the Chief Executive of NHS England or something, why wouldn't you just put 'Chief Executive'?

Even if you were the Prime Minister, surely you could just put 'Member of Parliament'?

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 20/06/2024 13:08

Ifailed · 19/06/2024 07:34

"I suppose 'Prime Minister' might be quite outing."

I don't know, we've quite a few in the past years?

That did make me laugh!

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 22/06/2024 09:42

Not sure if someone else has asked this, but why does it matter if a potential university can identify your DH from his job title?

Universities do not receive details of individual applicants' parents' job titles. UCAS assign them to NS-SEC groups: that is all the universities will see in end-of-cycle reports.

nearlysummerhooray · 22/06/2024 11:26

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 22/06/2024 09:42

Not sure if someone else has asked this, but why does it matter if a potential university can identify your DH from his job title?

Universities do not receive details of individual applicants' parents' job titles. UCAS assign them to NS-SEC groups: that is all the universities will see in end-of-cycle reports.

Lots of people have asked this and the OP hasn't answered

arjybarjy · 22/06/2024 15:34

nearlysummerhooray · 22/06/2024 11:26

Lots of people have asked this and the OP hasn't answered

The op has answered actually. 🙂To repeat, it's not specifically about me or my family, but about the principle of asking 17 year-olds for their parents' identifiable personal information. That principle may be too niche for many people to care about, especially if they have very general job titles, but nevertheless it's a reasonable question to ask. When I get a reply back from the UCAS DP contact I'll post an update. But feel free to unwatch the thread if you're not interested.

I do know that the info is not directly passed on to uni's.

OP posts:
Phphion · 22/06/2024 20:42

It is an interesting question. I hope you will tell us how UCAS respond, OP.

My guess would be that it would come down to one (or both) of two things.

Either a simple technical thing: the vast majority of job titles are not unique and are therfore not considered personal, identifying information, particularly as the question does not ask whose job title it is or any other information about that individual. There is an opt out option for cases where the person being asked considers that the information is identifying enough that it constitutes personal information.

Or, and much more interestingly, it may relate to how you resolve the issue of information 'belonging' to multiple people. In this case, your job title is information about your job, so it is your information and hence 'belongs' to you, but your job title also constitutes your DC's background, so it is also their information and also 'belongs' to them, particularly in this case where your DC's background is the subject and purpose of the question being asked. As it is not possible for your DC to disclose information about their background without also disclosing information about another, but not directly identified, person, and your DC can opt out of providing the information because it could potentially identify another person, it falls into something of a grey area.

As it could also be argued that the collection and processing of this data is necessary for the function of a regulatory body and is in the public interest, it would probably not be unreasonable for either or both of the above to be interpreted more leniently with regard to any possible consent requirements from people other than the individual responding to the question, particularly as they have the option of declining to answer.

Or it might just be that there is some small print somewhere that covers consent.

nearlysummerhooray · 22/06/2024 21:00

arjybarjy · 22/06/2024 15:34

The op has answered actually. 🙂To repeat, it's not specifically about me or my family, but about the principle of asking 17 year-olds for their parents' identifiable personal information. That principle may be too niche for many people to care about, especially if they have very general job titles, but nevertheless it's a reasonable question to ask. When I get a reply back from the UCAS DP contact I'll post an update. But feel free to unwatch the thread if you're not interested.

I do know that the info is not directly passed on to uni's.

Edited

Apologies. Not replied with anything that is a genuine concern........

JustPleachy · 22/06/2024 21:12

I realise this isn’t the point of the thread, but how very sad that two posters leaped to the conclusion that you were talking about your DH’s job title, rather than your own.

Jennyathemall · 22/06/2024 21:29

Then just change the job title to something equivalent but generic if you are so concerned about it being identifying. It makes absolutely no difference, to them or to the application. What a complete non issue.

Willowkins · 23/06/2024 15:45

@JustPleachy You're right! My mistake - and that's despite putting my job down as the highest earner.

poetryandwine · 23/06/2024 16:39

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 22/06/2024 09:42

Not sure if someone else has asked this, but why does it matter if a potential university can identify your DH from his job title?

Universities do not receive details of individual applicants' parents' job titles. UCAS assign them to NS-SEC groups: that is all the universities will see in end-of-cycle reports.

I also did not remember ever seeing a parent’s job description when doing a stint as admissions tutor. Though TBH one quickly trains the eyes to focus only on the relevant pieces of information. As contextual applications are flagged for us I cannot imagine a less interesting data point on the application.

I am Russell Group and don’t understand PP’s warning on that score at all.

Thank you for your interesting explanations, @Phphion

likethislikethat · 25/06/2024 22:36

Lots of you obviously live in a world of make believe outside your Tesla environments but the real, aka real world isn't full of soft touch "doesn't matter" sociological metrics.

You're cannon fodder.

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