Integrated MSc's

[OneInEight]

Does anyone have any experience of integrated MScs ( Physics mainly) and how the level of difficulty changes through the course. ds1 has just completed his third year and is on the right side of the 2:1 / 1 grade boundary but has found this year harder than his first 2 years & got very stressed in the exam period. So my question is it likely the fourth year will be even harder and therefore finish up with a lower degree or would he be better to finish now with a first. And does a MSc (at 2:1 or lower) beat a BSc (first) in terms of employability.

If it is integrated is it a MSc he would be awarded or a MPhys or similar? The undergrad masters (integrated) ones I have known were always named for the course (MEng etc). I would say for employability in general as long as whatever the qualification is is a 2:1 or above, and candidate showed enthusiasm for the subject (assuming related role) then the exact award would not really matter. What does he want to do after? Sometimes working for a while in the field helps to ignite enthusiasm for further qualifications later, and you can go on the PhD without a master's as long as it's 2:1 or higher. (Speaking from Science but not physics specifically)

I did an integrated masters, and my result at the end of the third year stayed as my BSc result. Then the masters was a pass or fail or distinction on top of that, but not replacing the BSc result. I think that's how it normally works?

Thanks. It is just very different from when I studied when you mainly went straight to doing a PhD if you wanted to go in the research direction (mind you I was Biology rather than Physics). He refers to a MSc but you may well be right the award might be MPhys BrucesTooth. That sounds more fair *LemonCitron" if it works like that as would be less of a gamble. I hope he is not wanting to do it just because he can avoid applying for jobs for another year which is not a great reason.

In Engineering there is a big difference between BEng and MEng regarding jobs. This is because BEng has restrictions on professional progression. Therefore does that matter for DS? I really don’t know enough about Physics. The other option might be to finish a BSc level and transfer to a MSc that he might prefer. Would cost more but might suit better? A lot depends on his preferred career though I think.

My DS has just completed an integrated masters MMath. The final classification is Pass, Merit, Distinction and the result from undergrad finals is not counted. He found the Masters year easier than 3rd year although struggled a bit with the dissertation timing with final exams starting just a few weeks later.

DDs friend's doing MPhys says last year easier as substantial project/dissertation which is her thing. Her uni (Scottish) weight 20/40/40% over last 3 years.

The masters year on integrated courses for STEM subjects always (afaik) include a research project in addition to the taught content. So how your DS does may depend on his relative aptitude for that side of things. Fwiw my dd was solidly 2:1 through her degree and her final 4th year exams, so for the masters she was awarded Merit but with a Distinction for the project. In her case that was her stronger side.

I did my MSci many years ago (physics-ish, back in the window where it was cheaper because the local authority paid all your fees, including the masters year).

for us it was an MSci not MSc or MPhys. The 4th year wasn’t necessarily harder. The maths got a lot harder if you chose, or you could swerve the more mathsy courses. There was a lot of variety. A research project counted for a large chunk of the marks.

The people who didn’t get their 2:1 at the end of year 3 couldn’t progress to the MSci, but some got accepted onto the MSc, which was the same content but over a full 12 months. Not the 9 we had. So I laughed when people said an MSci wasn’t a real masters 😭

our grades were 1st/2:1 etc, like a BSc. Not the pass/merit/distinction of a post-grad MSc.

I found the fourth year much easier (long ago) because you get much more choice of modules and you choose your own research direction. That means you can play to your strengths.

It's a major plus for job hunting and massively cheaper than going back for an MSc later. Outside specialist industry courses, MScs can be viewed as making up for poor first degrees too and are lower quality.

The other thing about the masters year that it's likely to be a much smaller set of options, so they can likely ditch subjects they don't get on with. So although the content may be deeper/more complex it may be easier for them than the wider range of the earlier years.

Outside specialist industry courses, MScs can be viewed as making up for poor first degrees too and are lower quality.

Quite a few MScs seem to be very largely overseas graduates 'topping up', rather than attracting U.K. students. They're much more expensive for the latter than doing an integrated masters - a whole separate loan which afaik is repaid concurrently with the undergrad one, and usually significantly higher tuition fees.

Looking at MEng integrated at Bristol - it’s standard classification. So first etc. There are more costs involved in a stand alone masters but lots more choice of subject. Including lots of cutting edge technology that’s very relevant and geared to employment.

Many thanks for all the responses. it appears he would get a MSci with standard degree classification if he goes ahead. He knows of one student who didn't do well in the Masters year but still got the standard BSc with good grade so all was not lost. So anyway he is going to talk with staff in his department and see if he can get a decent project and supervisor for the dissertation part. He was convinced he had failed some papers this year so now has to refocus on next year rather than spend the Summer revising for resits. But good to know others have found the fourth year easier than the third.