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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

How typical are "typical grades"?

38 replies

PartoftheBand · 03/06/2024 10:46

Both Leeds and Exeter are showing a typical offer of AAB for History for 2025 entry. For 2024 entry, Leeds was AAA and Exeter AAA-AAB.

Do unis ever/ often offer above the typical grades shown on the website? In other words, if DD applies for either uni is there any possibility that her offer may be at the previous level of AAA?

OP posts:
Cx5 · 04/06/2024 22:52

@GinandDubonnet that's interesting to know it also happened last year. I wondered if they just had a high standard of applications so increased their offers to match. My DCs also went to average state comp and are currently at a good state sixth form so I don't think that would have effected their offers.

SlenderRations · 05/06/2024 09:24

While I am pontificating about uni data and the typical va contextual stuff, for some unis and subjects the general offer rate is very misleading. Edinburgh, Durham and St A's for some humanities fell into this category when I was looking. If you split the offer rates between contextual and non, very different pictures are revealed, with one being recruiting and one selective - huge gaps. (I only looked at RUK, but after the scottish nlegal applicants shocker a couple of years ago I imagine it applies to locals too).

Well worth looking at now for year 12s looking to make a sensible range of choices while there is plenty of time to source the info.

WombatChocolate · 05/06/2024 10:08

Yes, there are all kinds of ‘sub-markets’ that it’s not always easy to get data about, and which they’d rather we didn’t know about. International applicants, home non-contextual, contextual….possibly one or two other very small groups too.

I suppose unis are balancing getting candidates with plenty of funding attached to them (international) with wanting the best quality students, but also needing to play a role in levelling-up and likely targets or overall scrutiny of exactly where students are coming from.

Each parent and their child falls within one sub-group (and sometimes different ones for different universities) and what they need is the details about offers for their particular group, so they can make informed choices.

Transparancy is important but there is clearly reluctance about it too - understandably I think, because that data which shows high achieving non-contextual students have a less good offer rate at some highly selective universities isn’t appealing to that demographic. Nor is the idea that on some courses, internationals who are paying can get in with lower grades or Clearing is only open to them.

But universities have to be funded and government loans for fees have stagnated in real terms over many years. Universities might wish to admit the best and also to be involved in widening participation….but as the finds get tighter and tighter, the monetary needs have to overtake the educational excellence and other goals. They can only provide education to anyone if they survive and are financially viable. They are between a rock and a hard place.

Parents and kids often want exclusivity and a sense of being highly selective. Many that actually aren’t, work hard to give that impression, as it attracts certain types of applicants. But at the same time, they need to get the message out that they are also accessible so enough apply and they have some level of choice about who to take and very importantly can fill. Their ultimate goal is to get more of the best to apply and to be able to fill more places with the best and still have enough of those one level below to fill remaining places. It is a sign of their own success and popularity to be able to turn people away - but there is a balance, because if it happens to too great a level and is known, applications might fall.

Most universities and courses won’t have the luxury that Oxbridge or Cowi or some of the London or very top tier RG unis have of being comfortably ‘selecting’ universities. Some might be close to it and achieve it by the skin of their teeth some years and in some courses, but always face the threat that that could easily become recruiting universities. Most will be recruiting universities. And whilst they don’t have the luxury of choice of candidates in the way the elite ones may, it’s just the reality and a numbers game that must be payed and adjusted each year in response to more up-to-date data from the year before that helps them play the game of making sure they are full or as close to it come a few days after A Level results.

One problem is that yr12 students are attending Open Days now, websites have been updated with standard offers for 2025 entry etc and unis have already had to make decisions about that year of entry. But of course the results for 2024 are not yet known. The patterns of grades being above or below what they have banked upon and exactly how many firms, insurances and others will arrive aren’t yet known. If this stuff was known, some would want to adjust their offering profile for 2025. And I guess that’s a reason to why some give a range which is quite vague, to allow them a chance to respond to the results of this year once they are known. Understandable, but doesn’t really help applicants, especially those who are marginal and aspirational candidates for certain courses.

Allotment123 · 06/06/2024 14:06

EXETER DO ASK FOR A HIGHER Offer. My daughter was predicted A*, A, B for a course advertised as typical offer A, A, B and they asked for her predicted grades which are above their typical offer

PartoftheBand · 06/06/2024 15:54

@Allotment123 Do you mind me asking what course this was for?

OP posts:
DorotheaDiamond · 06/06/2024 16:35

Allotment123 · 06/06/2024 14:06

EXETER DO ASK FOR A HIGHER Offer. My daughter was predicted A*, A, B for a course advertised as typical offer A, A, B and they asked for her predicted grades which are above their typical offer

That’s interesting and not what the admissions talk said…

from my recording/transcript:

”The offer that we actually make you will be in line with the typical offer published in the prospectus. So, whatever your predicted grades, that helps us choose who gets the offer, but the offer we actually make will be consistent with what we've published in the prospectus. “

did she accept the offer? Would be interesting to ask admissions about it given their stated policy!

Allotment123 · 06/06/2024 19:40

She desperately wanted to accept the offer but was worried about getting the A, so put it as insurance with Bristol first as they offered contextual but only if you firmed them first. She is planning on taking a gap year and reapplying if she gets the grades. I think she will get them but it takes the pressure off

I was hoing they might offer her a dropped grade of she firmed (Birmingham did this) but although she held out until almost the last minute ahead of the Ucas deadline they didn't, she didn't do a EPQ

Allotment123 · 06/06/2024 19:41

PartoftheBand · 06/06/2024 15:54

@Allotment123 Do you mind me asking what course this was for?

I'll pm you

AIstolemylunch · 06/06/2024 20:06

What is AS core Maths? I though we didnt do AS levels anymore?

ReplenishMyCoffee · 06/06/2024 20:38

Agreed re Exeter. DD offered her predicteds of AAA and friend (non contextual) offered same subject AAB as per her predicteds.

Not a fair offer system IMO. Of all the unis visited Exeter were the most opaque and obstructive when questioned about their offer policy and actually visibly squirmed when questioned.

DorotheaDiamond · 06/06/2024 21:44

ReplenishMyCoffee · 06/06/2024 20:38

Agreed re Exeter. DD offered her predicteds of AAA and friend (non contextual) offered same subject AAB as per her predicteds.

Not a fair offer system IMO. Of all the unis visited Exeter were the most opaque and obstructive when questioned about their offer policy and actually visibly squirmed when questioned.

I wish someone would challenge them on this with evidence! Are your dad/friend at same school? I have recording of admissions tutor saying they make the standard offer (as per transcript) if the school fancy a snoop!

or maybe I will do a FOI on them!

ReplenishMyCoffee · 06/06/2024 21:50

DorotheaDiamond · 06/06/2024 21:44

I wish someone would challenge them on this with evidence! Are your dad/friend at same school? I have recording of admissions tutor saying they make the standard offer (as per transcript) if the school fancy a snoop!

or maybe I will do a FOI on them!

Edited

Yep DD and friend at same school. CBA to challenge as DD doesn’t want to go there anyway, didn’t like the vibe.

Angrymum22 · 06/06/2024 22:43

I was unaware that DS’s school were happy to increase predicted grades to facilitate offers. Possibly because it is an academically selective school, they may have more confidence in a student improving their grades. Equally, because Exeter, Bath and Bristol are common destinations they know that if the student drops a grade they will probably still be accepted. Maybe the unis are more confident in the predictions from a school that consistently supplies students.
Last year DS’s cohort produced the best set of A levels for years despite the grade debacle, but a large number didn’t make their grades ( which were inflated as a result of the pandemic grade inflation). Very few were rejected, suggesting that universities were accepting whatever grades you go.
DS was offered a place at RG uni this year ( he applied for 2024 with grades in hand) they were asking for AAB for Business management, he has BBB.
Having taken a gap year, he has had more time to consider his future. He chose Business Management because he found the subject easy ( the B grade at A level was the result of zero revision). He just wanted to go to uni and considered Business Management an easy option but a good life skill if he wanted to work for himself in the future.
When applying through UCAS he couldn’t find a uni that he liked for his 5th choice so having had a good mooch found his wild card.
Despite landing an unconditional offer from an RG uni , he is going for his wild card. He can still do an MSc in Business if he wants to broaden his horizons, but he is far more likely to end up in his dream job with his wild card.

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