UEA and social class

[Changinforaday]

So I know that some universities have a reputation for having a big "posh" and wealthy element - Durham, Exeter, Bristol in particular.

What is UEA like socially?

I had friends years ago who went there and they were all really quirky, interesting and clever people, but never part of that "posh set".

I am wondering if this is still the case or if it's changed substantially.

Thanks

I'm not clear what you're asking -- are you asking whether there's a 'posh set' at UEA? Or are you saying that there was when your friends went there, but that they weren't in it?

sorry. I mean it never seemed to have that element back then but does it now?

@Changinforaday Is your DC allergic to other people who are slightly different to them? What on earth does it matter? Would they expect never to speak to someone they have pre labelled as “posh” without any attempt to get to know them? It’s a poor attitude to stay in your pre ordained box. Uni is all about meeting others and being open to new opportunities and even people.

I think their private school entry is low but it’s not RG so maybe not on their radar so much. I think it’s 5%. They do boast one of the largest uni debts and falling applications. They have a crisis with a building and a financial black hole. Maybe they need the rich to bail them out?

It’s not a uni where private school children flock to, it’s a mixture, lots of contextual students go there, they aim for highest ranking unis.

It has a good mix of all sorts.

No, UEA is not "posh"
I'm local and it's seen as one that locals go to, local private school kids go further away. Norwich in general is quite a creative place, lots of mature students I know did UEA too

My DD recently went to UEA and it didn't appear to be overwhelmingly posh from the friends she made there.

UEA punches above its weight for a local university! Alumni include

Matt Smith aka Dr Who

The Nobel Laureates Michael Houghton, Sir Paul Nurse and Kazuo Ishiguro. PN is a past President of the Royal Society and KS is perhaps our greatest living writer

And many other eminent people. Not bad for a university only founded 51 yrs ago

PS Also especially noteworthy: Dame Sarah Gilbert, who led the team that developed the Oxford-Astra Zeneca Covid vaccine

When I was there in the 80s there was a certain Sloane Ranger set but it seemed pretty much confined to the History of Art department . Otherwise a mixed bag.

Yes I was going to add Dame Sarah to your list, but you got there first. They're obviously doing well in the biosciences.

It’s a good mixture. My dd has friends that go there and we live in Norfolk. Dd decided to go to Nottingham because of the course she wanted to do but lots of her best friends went to UEA. It’s not posh as such but I would say it’s fairly middle class. Most of the teens from Norfolk / Suffolk who go on to do degrees are. That’s a really strong statement I know but from the 20 odd years of living here (having moved from London) it seems to be that there are two lots of teens - the middle class ones go on to do degrees and the working class ones tend to go straight into working for local companies, often with family etc. That’s the experience that dd has noticed, but of course people go to UEA from all over the U.K.

@Changinforaday one of my DC recently graduated from UEA. I would not categorise it as a white middle-class finishing school such as an Exeter or Durham. 😁

For what its worth its around 8% privately educated and 9% grammar; the former way different from an Exeter or Durham, but the grammar percentage only a couple of points lower. Private schools do produce a small minority that are thoroughly obnoxious; although I think the same can equally be said for grammar and non-selective state. The vast majority of uni DC irrespective of educational background are, I think, perfectly pleasant young adults.

UEA still has, like almost every university in the UK, a strong regional pull - 85% of its UK undergrads from the East of England, South East or London. We're not from any of those, but my DC it was a complete non-issue.

RAIC was found at the Zigs; however I understand, though worth checking, that the Zigs are due to be back in business for the start of the 24-25 academic year.

Obviously UEA is not "RG", although I very much doubt that any MNer could name all 24 members, identify who the originals were, or know that but for a quirk of fate Leicester Uni would be in the RG. The RG is undoubtedly a marketing success story, but that's about it. If we looked at the latest CUG UEA is ranked 21st above RGs such as Leeds, Manchester, KCL, Queens, Newcastle, Cardiff, Glasgow, Nottingham and QMUL.

Norwich is certainly not Manchester or Leeds in city terms. I like its eclectic nature, it has always felt a warm and welcoming place (as have both Manchester and Leeds tbf), and my UEA DC has stayed there since graduating.

The financial challenge, although again hardly unique to UEA, did not impact my DC; however he felt from some peers that it was impacting the breadth of offer on some courses, but for many / a majority there were no obvious impacts. Still worth being aware of.though.

My DC hugely enjoyed UEA, felt really welcomed and part of the UEA community. I would not hesitate to recommend it as an option.

Mixed, not posh.

Actually @boys3 its not marketing - according to the IFS. RG students earn more. It was a tongue in cheek comment from me about RG.

I do not understand though why any student worries about a minority in any university. Should I have posted on MN that my DDs didn’t want to go anywhere with state educated DC?What reason could I dream up? Obviously not remotely sensible snd they didn’t think like that, of course. Why can we not teach DC that all dc are ok until they prove otherwise? Why are the Brits so beset with class and disliking students they have never met? The state tribe is the biggest tribe - everywhere!

@poetryandwine We had loads of plate glass unis built in the 60s onwards. It’s not unusual to find they have interesting alumni. However whatever they achieved has no bearing on uni right now in many cases. It’s the past.

Well, @TizerorFizz the Creative Writing Programme is consistently within the UK Top 10 for years now. Whether it was during Ishiguro’s time or whether having alumni like him and, I think, Ian MacEwan popularised the programme I don’t know

@TizerorFizz it 100% is marketing hype, or not far off . The IFS report, presumably this one https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/R167-The-impact-of-undergraduate-degrees-on-lifetime-earnings.pdf does not actually say in such black and white terms what you think it does once you start reading the full report.

Indeed you only have to get to page 9 to read

We see little variation in average lifetime returns across university groups for women, but substantial differences for men. More selective universities offer much higher returns on average for men but not for women. For both men and women, Russell Group universities offer higher returns for those at the top of the returns distribution, but similar returns com pared with other universities for those at the bottom. These results mirror similar patterns in the distribution of lifetime earnings.

and without even looking at the IFS reports we'd surely know that for example Cambridge and Cardiff will provide different financial returns; even though they are both RG. Another IFS report even splits out Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial; and then puts the other 20 RG hangers-on in a second category. For obvious reasons! Hanger-on is a bit harsh on some of the other 20 - but with a GE about a month away hyperbole is very much in vogue - , but the suggestion that all 24 RGs have the same or even similar outcomes is about as credible as a Liz Truss budget!

with page 10 of the IFS report making this point in somewhat less excitable language

There is again significant variation within university groups: we estimate that around half of all women in each university group have negative exchequer returns, but large contributions from the highest-earning graduates push up the average, especially at Russell Group universities.

Not that any of this has much bearing on UEA, or the actual question raised by the OP. Sorry OP for the derail.🙁

Now if the IFS broke down its analysis by individual uni that might start to tell us something.

Obviously there are differences between RG and markedly for men and markedly in some subjects, eg economics. No getting away from that. Differences within RG too. Clearly Cardiff isn’t Cambridge. Obviously, there’s RG plus to consider too but a uni recruiting heavily from the local area that is a fairly low wage economy, tells you it’s going to struggle to be a big hitter in some areas of study. However I’m perfectly happy that many are happy with that. What I don’t like is only going to a uni that has “people like you” in it and the perception that you will not like other people. From anyone that’s a poor attitude towards fellow students.

Regarding Creative Writing (which is always raised when UEA is mentioned!)although the uni has 18,000 students - lots of people now do a journalist course after an academic degree from a high ranking uni. UEA is 7th in CUG for creative writing but the vast majority of writers didn’t do a 3 year writing and literature course . Of course Malcolm Bradbury launched the MA in creative writing there and we all enjoyed The History Man written in 1975: the tv adaptation too. But at 50 years ago it was a different world. Uea was established in 1963. One of many to expand uni attendance in the second half of the 20th century.

Norfolk doesn't have many private schools and it doesn't have any grammar schools, lots of local students go there and it's quite mixed, it's tricky to get into Norfolk with our lack of motor ways etc so I expect it attracts more East Anglian students than from much further afield. I've walked around the campus alot and students seem very normal for the area, not many posher RP accents. Norwich in general has quite an artsy vibe.

I went to one of the ‘posh’ unis you mentioned. I am not at all posh. Yes there were lots of posh folk (most of whom were very nice) but also plenty of very
bright people from more normal backgrounds all of whom have got on really well in life.

Is agree with your reflection. We're in that region and many from the 6th form go to UEA and then the rest disperse all over. UEA has the largest pull. Geography probably plays into this. If my DD wanted to go to a university within 2 hours, once Cambridge and London are discounted, UEA is the only contender. Spread that out to 3 hours and we'd just scoop up Warwick and Loughborough.

DD2 wants a campus uni and not to be as far from home as DD1 is when at uni, so she's chosen UEA for next year if she still can't get an apprenticeship. She'll.study CS and UEA come high up in.employment rankings for CS. Students just seem normal and nice. Certainly no vibe of overly privileged.

All students should be aware that even people who have more money than you can be lovely people. Why do we persist with staying in our narrow bubble and not using uni to branch out and listen to other views or mix with people we have not met before? Do we say that our dc should not mix with ethnic minorities (not so many in Norfolk so maybe that is a factor)? It always feels that students are keeping themselves in their place. Like the old Frost Report sketch. “I know my place”.

Our friends referred to their DS as the “East Anglian Boy”. Except he defied the description, and UEA as anticipated by parents, and went a long way from East Anglia for uni. Hasn’t come back either! His line of work isn’t in East Anglia. I think quite a few privately educated dc from London might like North Norfolk for a holiday but don’t want to live there for 3 years. Although they throng to Exeter in very high numbers.

Many students do travel more than 2 hours to uni. If you live in Norfolk most people see travel to uni as a necessity in order to give choice. 3 hours opens up more choice and many parents drive this and more to uni from home. Exeter is popular in my area. 3.5 hours drive. Leeds and York too. All over 3 hours.My Norfolk friends DD went to Durham. Norfolk is blessed not to have motorways in many ways. HS2 is being built near us. Be grateful you don’t have that either.

If that is directed at me I am not sure why. I'm reflecting on what appears to be the norm where I live. I'm not from east Anglia so have encouraged my dc to go where they want aiming high. UEA is about the best DD2 can hope for without maths A level and has other reasons why being closer to home will suit. We have many friends in the south east whose kids have gone to uni only 2 hours away. All my dd's friends at Bath are from the south west/Surrey/London. 1-2 hours by train.

I did my Masters there in the noughties and live not too far away. It was just a normal mix of people. Still is seemingly.

I'm working class and never felt out of place.