German with Russian or Arabic

[Soundofshuna]

DD loves German. Can’t decide which other language to study with it. She is interested in both Russian and Arabic.

I studied one of those combinations.

Both will be challenging from beginner level, but Russian is likely to be slightly easier coming from a European languages background.

What is drawing her to both of them? I would avoid choosing something just because it seems unusual, or exciting. Don’t get too bogged down in “usefulness”. Choose the one you love the most.
Make the decision with your eyes wide open.

For a modern languages degree, she will be studying culture, politics, history, literature, film, possibly linguistics, alongside language. So being really genuinely interested in some of those in the context of the areas that speak the languages she is interested in is really important.

Certainly there is plenty of material for both languages to deep dive into and find something that really absorbs her! Only she will know which one she really wants to dedicate the next 4 years of her life to.

To get an overview and guide decision,asking, I would read some classic literature in translation, some 20th century history and politics, some earlier history, perhaps watch some films. Think about aspects of culture that might be interesting - art? music? religion? and maybe try and find out a bit about those. Learn the alphabet of each, practise writing it.
Is there one she is more drawn to?

Think very carefully about the year abroad. Where would she go? There are risky or unsafe options on both sides. Again, only she knows if this is what she wants to sign up for.

Good luck to her!

Look up the number of speakers of russian or Arabic and number of speakers in the uk. At the moment there is little chance of travelling to Russia as we are almost at war and it seems that situation could go on for years. Could be useful in some former soviet countries and Russian is slavic so is quite similar to many east European languages. Arabic is spoken across Muslim countries in middle east and north Africa so although things are tense we are hopefully not going to be banned from all of them at once.

Depends what she wants to do afterwards and whether she prefers slavic culture and cold countries or Arabic culture and hot countries. War and peace or Aladdin

She’s done an introductory Arabic MOOC and is reading some Russian literature. She loves languages in general ( did French, Latin & Ancient Greek at GCSE) but really likes speaking and learning about other cultures.
I think Arabic would be preferable ( nicer food, weather etc) but she is worried about the year abroad being second year and thinks she might like Russian as a language more.

I studied (a little bit of) German and Arabic and like them both. Also love Arab culture and countries. So that would be my preference but it's purely personal as I have never studied Russian or been to any Russian speaking countries 😆

Most unis have year abroad as third year. Few are good enough ab initio to consider 2nd year as viable. Where says it’s 2nd year @Soundofshuna ? She definitely can put off going abroad until 3rd year. Oxbridge is 3rd year abroad.

Lots of students come to university with a certain amount of Arabic learning already. I also think learning languages does not have to be a route to a job using the languages, unless you want that. DD did 2 European languages and never uses a word of either at work so for many it’s a career platform. Not many Russian speakers needed overall. However FO might!

She should do what interests her but year abroad will have some limitations. Well - a semester abroad! Where do unis send dc?

Exeter Oxford Leeds all had year 2 away as intense arabic( Cambridge, St Andrews were year 3) Edinburgh don’t offer German and Arabic hence the swivel to Russian( I think!)
she is keen on forces or FO so may use either/ both.

Uni of Manchester has both German/Russian and German/Arabic as a 4 year UG, 3rd year abroad. Typical min. requirements ABB.

It’s true, often non-European languages have second year abroad, sometimes immediately followed by third year abroad for the European language!

I know Oxford send ab initio Russian abroad in the second year also.
Cambridge is different because you can choose which language to do your oral and translation exams in, whereas Oxford you have to do them in both. I don’t know how other universities do things.

Anecdotally, the people I know (lots) who did German and ab initio Russian managed fine.

The three people I knew doing German and ab initio Arabic - one dropped out, one changed course, the other swapped Arabic for French.
I think most of the other people on the Arabic course had some heritage with the language, (I think often they could read it aloud, but not speak or understand it), so they started ahead, and it was harder and harder for the others to keep up.

This was a while ago, so I don’t know what the course demographics are like now.

I'd tend to agree with your feedback @donstrenchcoatanddarkglasses , amongst DD's offers from UK unis that included M'cr and Leeds, she thought she'd be starting ab initio Arabic with more native speakers which whilst not insurmountable, would make it a touch harder. She's found drop out rates of the language (anecdotally) from her peers from the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Leeds to be high vs those taking other languages. I don't know the demographics either but assume it's small, given its low accessibility in the MFL pool in UK, but then most language faculties are challenged right now, marginalised languages often demoted to the 'elective/language suite' learning.

Unlike your DD OP who's already undertaken a MOOC and engaged in the literature so knows she's happy with both, work backwards, does she know what she may want to do? What type of year abroad does she want to experience? Does she intend to use her languages or just leverage the skills as part of her wider UG studies for her next stage. All uni offerings will vary, some will be more hands on than others, who will leave the choice to the student, including the destinations available for both geographies which have their own set of challenges right now, so flexibility is key.

Mine is about to start her Y3 abroad from Aug 24 in Cairo (fingers crossed, already undergone one location change) and Grenada, benefitting from Erasmus+ access for 2nd semester due to where she is studying in EU. But her mandatory study requirements are at unis (vs intensive language school), gaining 45 - 60 ECTs where many of the modules will be taught in local language. She will then drop Spanish in Y4 on return, focusing on Arabic only to attempt to get it to same level, as she wants to use both if possible in her career.

The only Russian takers we know in her age group are at UCL, and both students have had access (studying Russian and Ukrainian) to year abroad but, with more flexibility, British Council, community work etc living with families vs campus uni life. Both have gained fluent, excellent levels of Russian.

Good luck to your DD OP, both very challenging but exciting territories to become expert in, mine had really enjoyed the immersion into all matters ME on top of the hispanic programme.

I'm really sorry, I missed the forces/FO bit! Both fit well in terms of demand then.

Russian & German at Oxford you would have to do Y2 abroad at intensive language school in Estonia or Kazakhstan, as opposed to other linguists who go in Y3 to overseas universities, jobs etc. It's far from ideal and might change, but that's the situation at the moment.

At Cambridge it's Y3 abroad and doesn't have to be "Russian" so could go to Germany.

I know someone in their final year of studying German with Russian at Exeter.

They have loved the course, and Exeter, but the year abroad was not what had originally been expected (which was to spend the year in St Petersburg). Instead they divided the year between Estonia and Kazakhstan.

OP will you come back and tell us which language she chooses? I don't have advice, but I do have a DD who has taken a year of Arabic (+ 4 yrs Chinese, 5 yrs French, 1 yr Italian in school and out). I would love for her to choose languages at Uni but she's stuck on a social science and determined to go that route...

Of course! It may be a long drawn out process as she is hoping to have a year out so has another year to change her mind too! She is putting in an application this year. I showed her the thread which had given her lots to think about.