Training Contract in Law - How do people afford it?

[makumaku]

My dd wants to become a lawyer after her history degree at Cambridge. She is applying for jobs now but so far not had much luck.

She needs to do a law conversion course and then the SQE courses. Lots of companies she applied to have a maintenance grant for the conversion & they pay the fees. She has to do the GLD/conversion in central London.

We are from the north east so can’t help with free accommodation. The grant is “only” £10,000. One firm has told her that students should not have part time work.

How do people afford to do the conversion? £10k is not enough to live in London for a year from our research.

*seen this already

The Law Society offer some scholarships through diversity access scheme.

First off if your DD is intending on applying to city firms I wouldn’t recommend starting the GDL unless she has a tc lined up.

The big firms recruit 2 years in advance so if she starts the GDL, even if she gets a tc during it (i) she will likely end up having a gap year afterwards and (II) many will not refund law school costs whereas they pay for them up front for those with tcs.

If she is aiming for a city firm and gets a TC then as pps said they will also pay a maintenance grant. When I did mine it wasn’t quite enough to fund my living expenses so I did a lot of private tutoring on the side which was a nice way to earn money, I could flex it around my course commitments, and as a Cambridge graduate I was in high demand! The other option is to get a graduate loan like
others have suggested but I’m glad that I worked instead.

I had no family support whatsoever so those were my only options.

As someone linked above one firm pays this "We pay the course fees for the Law Conversion Course (PGDL) and the CCP and provide a maintenance grant of £12,000 for the Law Conversion Course and £20,000 for the CCP." I don't know if that firm makes you do the conversion in London but plenty of people live with parents and do it online so the £12k could be beer money really for some. Also you can do these courses without a sponsoring firm but it is better to do a law degree first because of how the student loan system works and most people can find that out in 2 seconds online when choosing their degree. If you don't do law first (I did law first) then you have 2 years not fund not one.

Those needing to fund two probably would be best applying for the law conversion with SQE1 course with masters at somewhere like BPP perhaps online (or in person if there is a centre near where the person might be able to live with parents) as the masters student loan will cover most of the course costs but not the exam fees paid to Kaplan.

There are a lot of us lawyers on Mumsnet so do ask any more questions. I also have 4 lawyer children - 2 qualified earlier this year so it is all quite current for me still. (I am from NE England and worked at a big London firm before setting up on my own)

Recently passed the sqe without a gdl or qualifying law degree and secured a training contract- it is doable but was tough!

I worked for several years before getting a TC in London (no family support or help with living costs). The maintenance payment during the GDL / LPC was helpful but only really covered my rent and wasn't enough to live on. I used my savings from work and also continued working in the course holidays whenever I could. Most of my cohort were from London originally so lived with family or at least had family support.

It is such a competitive environment with far too many people studying for the training contract places available. I personally wouldn't start any qualifications without first securing a training contract.

The good news is that lots of firms now recruit more widely than they used to - they hold open days, "virtual" placements and other social mobility events/schemes to give students insight and experience. I would definitely recommend applying for as many employer events as possible as these give lots of points to talk about in vac scheme or training contract interviews.

Same. I really regret it.

Congratulations that’s some achievement. Did you do a SQE prep course?

@makumaku this year is the first year of the new system so prior experiences of the old system is not necessarily relevant to your question. It is also now much more accessible as you don’t have to do the traditional conversion/qualification in 1/2 years, you can do it via an apprenticeship position or whilst working, although obviously this does take longer. The SQE part 1 in particular is very, very hard. My DD has a TC after doing a law degree involving a sandwich year during which she worked in the legal department of a non-law firm. She also did a 2 week summer vacation at a law firm she eventually got a TC for but this was not before She had applied for TC’s at all of the magic circle/tier 1 firms before getting a TC at a ‘tier 2’ /next largest groups firm for both a summer vacation placement and subsequently, a training contract. It literally is a numbers game involving tens of applications for both. She is tenacious and resilient so dealt with tons of rejections before finding a place on either. Honestly, unless your DD has submitted at least 30 applications she is not giving herself a chance. She is not required to study in central London (;but has chosen to) and has not been told she cannot have a PT job. It is a very full-on course tho, so your DD should not underestimate how much work she needs to put into the course. Her course will gain her a masters. The system of application for TC’s and describes as ‘cut throat’, particularly the behaviour on the vacation schemes where she encountered some pretty unpleasant behaviour from other candidates who were very entitled. For context, DD is not privately educated and did not go to Oxbridge. The DD of friends of ours submitted around 10 applications at the same time and gave up. 10 was nowhere near enough.

The issue with TC’s is that a failure at the first hurdle, the SQE1 is pretty much an unknown quantity with a lot of the firms. DD’s peers on the course have not been told if they are allowed to resit part1 or if their contract will be terminated if they don’t pass. Unsurprisingly, the level of pressure is enormous.

My own experience as a law graduate was that a tc was incredibly unlikely so I went into a different industry and was pretty happy in my career in comparison to my university friends who went into law after a law degree. Certainly I didn’t earn any less.I’d also say that of those who did not get a Training contract, but still went to law school absolutely none of them ended up working in a law firm. All of them took a bank loan to pay for the course….

You don’t say which year your DD is in at Uni, but Your DD should think about a sandwich year, summer vacation schemes etc before TC’s. The firms have the pick of students so her CV/passion for law really needs to stand out. A law degree is a great ‘springboard’ degree to many different professions so I’d also encourage her to spread her net wide into other fields rather than confining herself to just Law.

I moved to London, worked for about 5 years and saved the money to do it.

A few thoughts:

• I’m a really big believer in getting a TC with a firm to fund study (different route now with SQE but ironically, given it was to improve diversity, the study routes to SQE cost the same as trad pst grad law school (GDL etc) before starting any law school / SQE route - for those considering self funding, I really wouldn’t… the best approach for success at a good magic circle firm, if at all possible (I appreciate not everyone can / wants to take this option for various reasons), is to get ducks in a row in good time while still at uni with vac schemes and work experience (start local if easier!) and then secure the TC before starting law school (with a well known firm that funds! Easy to move firms a couple of years PQE!).
• the grant (my firm offers £11k) is tough but most future trainees not funded by parents live quite far out (I was in this boat moons ago and lived in South Woodford… far but east tube ride) and many do part time work (I did tutoring and worked 2 nights a week in a bar - that’s pretty common).
• as others have said, many firms say you must do the firm specific course at a London law school, but not all. The non London law schools are great value if that’s an option.
• for those who don’t have a TC out of uni, I second the suggestion of working for a year as a paralegal. Every year we recruit one or two from our paralegal pool so it can work both as a way to earn some money (but tbh it’s not we’ll paid…) and get known to the firm. I’d say that’s more common at mid -ish sized firms.
• it’s very normal to train in a big Ciry firm then move out of London or to a more boutique firm from (typically) 3 years PQE. Honestly (I’m probably biased) that’s a better route if at all possible (rather than training regionally). Regional lawyers will say different, and that’s totally fair enough!!
• Personally, I think it’s a great career and nowhere near as stressful as some naysayers make out! I’m 15 years in and have been a partner (in London - I live out of London and commute) since 8 years PQE… I enjoy it and I’m well rewarded financially. Go for it!

@Lawschoolgrad I think OP’s daughter is doing a history degree, not a law degree.

I did an English degree and about 50% of my trainee intake were non-law (which is typical), many of them having done History, so it’s certainly not a barrier to getting a TC, though you might need to work a bit harder to explain the inevitable “why law” questions.

Completely agree she’ll need to be tenacious and resilient - it’s a lottery, much like her Cambridge application was - loads of highly qualified, smart and motivated people!

Im not sure that I’d necessarily recommend it to a young person today mind you, but that’s another question.

@Lawschoolgrad I think you may be generalising from your DD's experience. Two of my DC secured MC TCs with only a handful of applications. I'm not clear how quantity helps markedly anyhow - there are a limited number of top tier firms. There's something to be said for focusing applications - they can be time consuming. One read Law at university, the other read History and only applied for vac schemes in the Autumn after graduating. That DC had never thought of going into law ahead of that - had a job offer in the City/ finance - but then thought a bit and went for it. Now absolutely thriving/ loving it two or three years after qualifying. One size/ route doesn't fit all - but certainly dozens of applications are not required for those who are the applicants being targeted by the MC firms.