Can a history degree actually lead to a good job?

[Jon1970]

Hi, I'd be grateful for an opinion on the merits or not of doing a history degree. My youngest daughter is currently in A1 doing History, Geography and Economics. She was considering doing Law at Uni (still is, to an extent..) but I think she is gradually drifting away from that, which is fine...at 17 I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. She has always loved History, and still does. There is a narrative out there on careers pages etc that History teaches you great analytical skills, problem solving and so on, the argument being that a degree in history can lead to "so many" careers. But I'm worried....in the real world, is this actually true?

I'm curious to know if you either did History yourself or someone you know, and did it lead to good opportunities further down the line? I really want to support her in doing what she wants to do and in something she enjoys, but just trying to sanity check that she won't say to me in 5 years time something like "Dad, why on earth did you let met me do a History degree?". I know that she could do a history degree and then a Law conversion course if she does want to go into law, but if she doesn't want to do law, what then?

I am probably slightly haunted by doing a music degree, and then switching later to IT and business.

Also, you're wrong about the purpose of universities - in 2024 UK. I made this point in another thread. They should be academic institutions. But aren't always. For a start, some accept students with a D in the subject of the degree in Clearing, no mitigating circumstances etc. Just to get bums on seats. And the amount of watered down syllabuses I have seen... don't get me started. But schools get kudos for sending students to university, people see it as 'prestigious' and more importantly, the universities make money!

I think this is proving my point. A crap university might offer career coaching if it wants to get students, but what I was saying is that a good university is not obliged to do so. It may decide to do so if it wants to attract the best students, but that’s not its primary purpose. So it’s unfair to blame uuniversities if a candidate does not get handheld through the job application process.

Also if the first sift is done by AI surely that means it’s easier to prepare yourself by seeking out tips online as you don’t need feedback about how a human being will perceive you in an interview.

All I am saying is that I am continually surprised at how many candidates appear not to have got off their arses and sought out readily-available guidance. And if they then go back and blame their universities I have very little time for that.

Is there any need to resort to accusations of lying and suggesting discriminatory attitudes? Maybe try to keep it civil?

I have never known what employers want on law firm application forms despite being a lawyer. Obviously they don't want spelling mistakes on there and sensible answers to questions but other than that I have no idea, although there are some firms that have youtube videos about what sorts of answers they want in interviews.
Although my 5 have now graduated, they have younger cousins in higher education so all this applications for jobs phase is still pretty relevant in our wider family.

Just on the topic of AI if you have a child doing applications, a lot of the law firm applications point out they have tools to work out who used AI in their writing (filling in the forms etc - a tiny part of a very long process, take a lot of people several days and even top people will find most applications do not get anywhere as everyone wants these very very high paid law jobs)

A combined degree may be better chances ? @Jon1970

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240214-ai-recruiting-hiring-software-bias-discrimination

One of the historians I knew at university is now a cabinet minister, so I guess he's done all right. I think connections/old school tie are more important than degree subject. I have zero connections and a classics degree , and am (you guessed it!) a teacher. Could be worse though, too old to have student debt.

My DDs friend has a classics degree from Cambridge and is a barrister. You must have to want it! State school and definitely no old school tie or connections. Just a fantastic person and very bright.

As for the notion that unis make money!! What a joke. If they are bums on seats and take D A level grades they should close or offer HND instead. Many smaller organisations don’t use AI. Why anyone cannot work out what a good cv looks like is beyond me.

I hoped this type of thing had disappeared.

Jobs for the boys and all that.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow Some people network like mad and make connections. Politicians 100% do this! You join a party and network network network! It’s partly about who you know to get into politics. Some just have to try harder than others!

If someone doesn’t want to try for a better paid career that’s up to them. No one has said they must teach. It’s choice.

It is a very interesting and complicated issue as to who gets the higher paid graduate job and who does not. Most of the big highest paid employers work very hard to be fair to everyone with very long winded processes (which put some people off - the rich and lazy and the poor and lazy alike or even people who just have better things to do with their time than spend weeks on it all). That does not mean I don't understand why employers make people go through endless hoops but it does seem a waste of so much effort on the part of these young people. I suppose at least the law firms might pay you £450 a week each week of a 2 week vacation scheme to assess you).

Ultimately once you get in to these jobs you tend only to stay if you are any good - no jobs for life and people are not kept on all the time. I wasn't even kept on after my law training contract and had to find another law job when I qualified and that was back in the 1980s.

However some careers really won’t be interested in the work in a supermarket.

My DD19 has worked part time in hospitality since she was 16. She's got a great work ethic, enjoys earning her own money and finds it gives some balance to her uni life.

I'm sure the fact that she has worked and the skills she has picked up doing so (along with her degree and volunteering) will be of considerable interest to employers.

@Thegrassneedsmowing Totally depends on the employer. DH employed grad engineers. Their competence would mean more. Supermarket work would be at the margins of useful. It might appeal to some who employ based on soft skills and don’t need other skills in place. Highly paid work will want more than a supermarket job. Many like an internship for example. Some careers are very demanding intellectually and ability to do the work isn’t judged on basic work in a supermarket. If you want retail or similar business jobs, then it’s fine.

Highly paid work will want more than a supermarket job

Well obviously 😂

In my experience though, the grads who’ve never worked are totally unprepared and a bit useless at actually coping with working hours/how to address colleagues and clients/just general professional behaviour. Of course, these are people who’ve done neither a relevant internship or a supermarket job. I remember one grad who was like a 14 year old. She wouldn’t make a phone call - she flat out told me she didn’t like talking on the phone! And she had extra curricular activities every evening - ballet, horse riding etc - and cried when she had to stay late to meet a deadline and miss ballet! But she went to an RG uni and somehow got through recruitment?!

@crazycrofter ”somehow got through recruitment”. There’s the issue of course. Had anyone actually weighted up her attitudes and whether she was a suitable employee? If she was working in local government I have no doubt an activity every evening would be possible and working late a rare occurrence. Horses for courses I think. Also RG doesn’t remotely make anyone a good employee but working in a supermarket doesn’t necessarily give dc the best skills either.
@Thegrassneedsmowing It’s all very well with the sarcasm, but I do think some posters really do believe low level work gets you into any career. I’ve seen it time and time again. Well paid to some isn’t a well paid competitive career to others though so that’s why I’m doubting some of the anecdotes. What some employers expect will be highly relevant work. Not work more or less anyone can do. Would you want a teacher with good subject knowledge and excellent class management or one who had sat at a checkout for hours?

My daughter has a degree in history and she is in civil service in a good job. Her friend is working in TV.

I didn't work in term time (but did volunteer for 2 years in a law centre attached to the university when I did my degree in law) but I did go away to work at some children's holiday centres in gorgeous country houses/boarding schools at age 17 when I left school and in each university holiday for about 4 years after that and it was poor pay but it is was hugely life changing for me - the independence, the friend made, the work - domestic assistant and then I trained to be a monitor looking after the children etc.

It’s not either/or @TizerorFizz but if you remember, this thread is about a History degree - so many of the grad jobs we’re talking about are ones requiring no specific subject knowledge , like accountancy, law, consulting etc. The knowledge will be learned on the job. I don’t pretend to know about other career options, but from my experience as an accountant in a big 4 firm (with a history degree) we were bothered about life skills/soft skills/work readiness. These things come from experiences like working hard in a menial job, dealing with customers, getting on with colleagues, having to book your annual leave around other people etc etc. They also no doubt come from other experiences too like leading a university society or travelling.

So the point is really that history is a perfectly good degree for lots of careers but make sure the student is also developing in other ways aside from academic skills. And for accountancy there’s no need for lots of relevant work experience or job related skills. For careers like engineering it’s completely different of course, but it would be very difficult for a history grad to go into engineering!

@crazycrofter Yes, of course a history grad won’t be looking for engineering roles but DD converted to law after MFL and did some relevant wotk experience which she found herself. She didn’t think supermarket work was relevant and her history grad friends didn’t do it either. I totally agree dc should get work experience though: I’m just not sure all jobs look favourably on supermarket roles when other roles could be better. Or a mix of the two.

Travel at parental expense can be seen as a luxury but I would never advocate doing nothing. I’m sure we agree on that. I’ve certainly seen that doing nothing limits employment prospects for “arts” grads.

Agreed. I don’t think anyone really does supermarket work as ‘work experience’ or because they think it’s useful. Most students do it because they need the money! But I think it also develops work ethic, soft skills and also an ability to get on with people of all backgrounds.

Of develops skills to avoid those stealing with menaces.

ISWYM but if your daughter ever wants to leave health, she'll have more options open to her, even if she has to complete further higher level voc training to get the job she wants (that may not necessarily be well paid).

Many in health leave and have second careers.

Of course, that's if she can get the degree without it being detrimental to her health / well being.

More generally, the bulk of academically average young people need jobs that pay at 18/21/24. These are scarce. That's the real problem, underinvestment in training / jobs, as a PP explained re. England's low rates of capital investment compared to other EU countries.

Degrees are now expected for lots of jobs slightly above NMW with no pathways for progression. Families are finding it harder to fund degrees due to increasing costs.

It's frustrating because a good degree from a good uni doesn't translate into a good job / salary.

Yet it's still a good idea to get one if you can, and more so for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds. Which is why the messaging around 2:2 from a low ranking uni being poor value is counterproductive for WC students.

DD graduated in History last year and she is now teaching English in South Korea.

Just with her history degree, or has she also done CELTA or similar?

she did a month course in S Korea before she started the teaching. I’m not sure if it was TEFL or a similar one.