Can a history degree actually lead to a good job?

[Jon1970]

Hi, I'd be grateful for an opinion on the merits or not of doing a history degree. My youngest daughter is currently in A1 doing History, Geography and Economics. She was considering doing Law at Uni (still is, to an extent..) but I think she is gradually drifting away from that, which is fine...at 17 I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. She has always loved History, and still does. There is a narrative out there on careers pages etc that History teaches you great analytical skills, problem solving and so on, the argument being that a degree in history can lead to "so many" careers. But I'm worried....in the real world, is this actually true?

I'm curious to know if you either did History yourself or someone you know, and did it lead to good opportunities further down the line? I really want to support her in doing what she wants to do and in something she enjoys, but just trying to sanity check that she won't say to me in 5 years time something like "Dad, why on earth did you let met me do a History degree?". I know that she could do a history degree and then a Law conversion course if she does want to go into law, but if she doesn't want to do law, what then?

I am probably slightly haunted by doing a music degree, and then switching later to IT and business.

I loved my LLB so if she thinks she may want to be a solicitor or barrister she may want to that which also removes a huge funding issue for post grad too unless you are one of the few to be sponsored in post grad by a law firm. If you don't get that sponsorship then having an LLB you can do the one post grad SQE course for which a post grad masters loan will cover the course but not the exam fees. If you don't have an LLB then most firms prefer you to do the 2 years post grad but you only get the one post grad masters loan so it can then be a bit more complicated.

I have 4 solicitor children ( 2 fully qualified this year) and 2 did a BA and 2 did a BSc and then all converted to law after. (I also have a 5th child - a non lawyer - who read ancient history and didn't go into law).

@Ginmonkeyagain Yes, very happy with this job, but I got it off the back of a professional qualification and previous experience, all unrelated to my degree. And it's been a long, hard road to get here - until a few years ago my highest salary was £25k, in jobs that sounded good on paper but really were dead-end. It's not that there's a shame in the roundabout route, it's just harder and more uncertain.

I have a degree in history and politics, graduated in the nineties, so pretty irrelevant to today’s students.

Although interesting I honestly think that the well paid careers of ex Oxbridge graduates are not relevant unless you fall into this small demographic.

A previous poster , had it right, that the majority of humanities graduates will not get onto graduate schemes. They will ideally need to get into a large organisation, probably in an entry level type job and work their way up. Possibly/probably doing vocational qualifications along the way, once they have worked out what would be helpful. There is nothing the matter with this, it’s always been like this. Some STEM graduates will be doing the same.

There will always be humanities graduates that outperform due to university they attended, personal attributes, location (London) etc, but this is not the norm .

i absolutely loved my degree (not from a top tier uni) but it hasn’t helped me get any job.

What it did give me.

• ability to leave economically depressed area in Ireland and move to vibrant city.
• A chance to gradually transition into adulthood whilst having lots of fun.
• I met my best friend and we have been by each other’s side ever since.
• Having a degree has enabled me to do several postgraduate qualifications relevant to my area of work.
• I met my husband to be whilst living in uni city following graduation.

Just typing out the above benefits made me feel quite emotional. So many life changing benefits.

it is different for young people now, with the loans system, I am not surprised they are doing a cost benefit analysis on degree subject/uni.

Speaking only from my own perspective and being in mid fifties, the most important aspect of my life for contentment, has been choosing the right people to share it with.

I earn mid fifties , but like a previous poster it was a winding route here, which I have mostly enjoyed.

Good luck to all the young people starting out on the next stage.

That's a great, balanced post @Pluto14 . I also benefited from leaving home (overprotective/controlling parents). Many young people still benefit from these opportunities, but I do think the world is bigger/more connected now due to social media/the internet and so for some young people the benefit is more marginal. My dd has enjoyed uni on the whole and made lots of new friends, but she already had dozens of friends from all over the country, met via camps she's been on and maintained via social media (and also some friends who she met via social media in the first place!). By sixth form she was used to travelling all over the country to meet up with friends and to go to festivals. She also grew up in a big city, had been travelling all over it by public transport since 11, had already been clubbing in the city centre and away with friends. She also tells me that the friends she's made at her RG uni are from a much narrower social circle than her existing friends - she finds it quite posh and white!

This is all just to illustrate that maybe the benefits are not so clear cut now for everyone. My ds won't be going, but he's already very confident and will be travelling the world instead next year, which should also be life changing! But I totally understand why the majority of his peers will be going to uni.

@obleek @TimeandMotion Unfortunately, having entered the field with a 'not-quite-STEM' degree myself, most 'conversion courses' are worthless.

@EBearhug I don't know when you did yours, but it does sound somewhat rigorous if 'formal logic' was covered. Data structures and algorithms, the most fundamental module in computer science is missing from the majority of conversion courses syllabuses.

Many STEM students who haven't done any programming or CS modules get accepted straight into technical graduate jobs after teaching themselves, I can see why a humanities grad might want something to bolster their creds. Even if it's their own learning rather than the course that makes the difference. But I'd suggest teaching themselves to code, having a GitHub portfolio or even doing something like CodeFirstGirls/online coding competitions instead of spending on said course.

If it's free, no loss, but otherwise doesn't really get much value. The other reason is of course if people want to apply for graduate schemes as a Master's student, and have too much work experience to be eligible otherwise.

Yes, it is much easier to keep in contact and potentially make friends than when I was at uni, pre mobile phones!

when I moved to Uni, it was like moving to a new world. I was a train and ferry away from home, no phone in the flat. I remember my mum writing to tell me that our family pet had died. Very minimal contact with home life, for long periods.

i agree that young people do not need to always move away to uni to meet new people now. I doubt my child who is not currently academically inclined will and that’s ok too.

@Pluto14 why do you see humanities grads as “outperforming” due to uni attended? We really do not need the best jobs all in the hands of stem grads? How narrow would that be? Humanities grads do have something to offer and many are very bright with a variety of skills and attributes to offer.

I completely agree that uni will matter and I think the minutae of the degree doesn’t. Neither does the masters if in an area where grads are two a penny. It’s also vital to try and enhance the cv, present well and be an interesting person.

We have sold many young people short by saying any degree from any uni is valued. My expertise is that academic degrees from the best unis and the personal attributes of degree holder matter more! It’s probably better to avoid humanities subjects at some unis but we still have schools peddling third division unis for subjects that were never available at those institutions 35 years ago. Now they are but they aren’t great currency.

This report has been seen by many of you I'm sure, but I've posted again as it makes for interesting reading with the OP's question. Whilst it's commissioned by UofOx, 9,000 is a pretty substantial sample size and it's relatively fresh being 2023, across 10 years from UG.

Lots of info - overall the findings show pretty positive outcomes for many of the humanities that could be similar for students from other high ranking universities, with history being solid for employability across many sectors. It's 83 pages so I'm not going to summarise, but agree with Tizer's points on personal attributes and quality of institution to tee up future success.

Another notable observation was the point of active vs passive students during their time at uni. Those that had some idea of where their non vocational degree could take them in advance seemed to be better equipped at seeking the type of skills, networking, accessing internships/opportunities to work etc to create successful pathways into their employment fields.

https://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/sitefiles/oxford-u-value-of-humanities-report.pdf

@ealingwestmum Im not surprised at your summary of findings. I have noticed time and time again, those with career plans (A, B and even C!) will get their career off to a better start. I’ve seen too many politics grads want to work in “policy” with no work experience or thought process on how you might do that. Just a belief that a degree and masters equips you for such roles. I’ve see grads fail to get into the civil service at the level they want and have no idea what else to try.

It's important not the spend too much time worrying about which bit of medieval history really interests you but spending more time thinking about what equips you for work.

It has always been a mistake to assume a degree is all you need to get in to a career. My part time summer job was probably just as instrumental to getting my first graduate job (a trainee position with a local authority) as my degree.

Yes, it's why trying be a rounded person with university studies, hobbies and work related this can be useful. I did 2 years volunteering in a law centre in years 2 and 3 of my law degree for example but also toured abroad with the chamber choir and things like that and got pretty good marks in my exams. At the interview where I got my first hob (it was interview no. 25 in year 3 of my degree as a very hard year with highest unemployment for FIFTY years and 3m out of work) my diary notes that the interviewer was interested in my singing as he had a sibling who organised a choirs festival based around cathedrals. Mind you my diary also noted how well some interviews went even one where as I had German A level the interview then switched to German and I did well - but all those ones I thought went well I was rejected other than no. 25 so it may just have been chance rather than I happened to have a hobby about which I could talk.

A few years ago what tipped the balance for one graduate scheme application for me was the fact they had worked part time at a supermarket through university. I felt it showed an aptitude for hard work and they would have some very useful transferrable skills - that hunch turned out to be true.

I did history as did both siblings. We went into law, accountancy and HR and all doing well.

Absolutely, when I used to look at CVs at my previous big 4, I always went for people with work experience, even if the alternative candidate had a 1st. In fact the best decision I made was between 2 people who'd both already been recruited to the firm but we had to choose one for our mini team. We took the one with a 2:1 in Sport Science from a 'new university', because he had 3 years of accounting experience in the NHS and was putting himself through ACCA exams. The one we rejected had (I think) a 1st from an RG, but no work experience. The one we chose was absolutely brilliant, very commercially minded, hard working and a team player, probably the best junior I've worked with. The one we rejected went on to get sacked within a few months for some incident on the football pitch! But he hadn't been great at his job either. But obviously that's just anecdotal evidence. I would never reject someone with a History degree (as I have one!) and I think they can be great for developing analytical and writing skills. But work experience is vital too.

There can be an issue with purely looking at a first. They have now been awarded out of all proportion these days in percentage terms. Employers don’t now trust all grades so want to see more. Some dc also work ridiculously hard to get one, it can mean they don’t have the breath of skills to offer. Frequently those who have a 2:1 can be just as good or better.

I don’t necessarily think working in a supermarket is always the best career move if you could and should have tailored work experience to career. Therefore working or volunteering can be very much linked to the career dc wants, which might not be running goods through the checkout. Plenty of dc just get experience with mum or dad which also does not say much about them.

@EBearhug has it covered. I did a MSc after my undergraduate degree.

My son done a History degree, he is now working in investments.

If she eventually she might want to do law, history is a very good foundation. (I didn't do history but many colleagues did.)

I studied history and regretted it. By the final year, I was doing 6 hours tuition a week with an expectation of lots of private (and very lonely) reading. I had so little to do, and so much unstructured time, that I ended up with mental health issues. If I had my time over, I'd do something more challenging, with more classroom teaching for friendships and structure. Degrees are commodities now as the cost is so high, so the debt is just not worth it for an arts and humanities degree in my opinion. Critical thinking and other concepts are acquired in most other disciplines too.

Sorry you had such a bad experience. It's a real shame there wasn't more support for you and/or it wasn't made clear how much would be classroom based.

That said, for some people, independent/unstructured time suits them much better : especially so they can go off on their own tangents. Personally I often need to read and digest on my own before discussing in a group.

I would also be hesitant to write off all arts/humanities degrees. Some of us just aren't cut out for the sciences. I did law (so a humanities degree) and would have totally flopped at a science subject.

Exactly.
Bearing in mind that a degree and 3 years at university are totally separate things. Why are we obsessed with shoving 18 year olds into full-time education? The vast majority in 2024 aren't going to graduate and go straight into plum graduate jobs. Sure, they might get entry level roles and work their way up, but that doesn't put them in a better position than someone who never went to university.

Getting a 'degree' itself is easier. There are more options than ever for getting a degree. The OU, part-time courses, online degrees. There are even top-up degrees where existing qualifications can be converted into degree in a year.

I do a lot of graduate recruitment for my Fortune 500 company, also mentor grads unable to get jobs and a lot of them had no idea what they were even in university for. As a PP said, just a vague idea of getting a degree, then a graduate job would fall into their lap. Even those only 50% of UK young people go to university that's still enough for sizeable competition, not to mention all the international students.

Unfortunately the pressure to go straight to uni is massive in some sixth forms and circles. We would have preferred our dd to have a year or two out to get some experience and work out what (healthcare) career she wanted. Instead she followed her peers and the advice of her careers advisor at school to do an academic degree at an RG uni to keep her options open. She’s not particularly enjoying the course or doing well and it isn’t really going to open the sort of doors she wants to keep open - she’ll have to do a conversion course in a healthcare subject. It might have been ok advice if she was considering careers like law or accountancy. And it’s costing her (in debt) and us a fortune!

Sorry to derail the thread though - a history degree is fine for keeping those other sorts of options open, along with work experience and other soft skills.

Pretty much the full set of history / humanities / STEM and non-graduate here, and all have worked out well (though too early to tell yet for the STEM DD). My degree was in history. I went on to do a PhD, did some part-time university lecturing while my DDs were small, then did a part-time PG archives and records management course and became an archivist. Absolutely loved my job (now retired), though the pay was terrible.

DD1 never wanted to go to uni and did a level 3 marketing apprenticeship after A levels. She has worked in recruitment and marketing, and is now an internal comms manager on a good salary. She doesn't feel she has missed out at all by not having a degree.

DD2 got a 1st in a humanities degree at a RG university, followed by a place on a Big 4 grad scheme and is now an accountant on an excellent salary. She was the only one in her intake at a moderate sized office with a humanities background - almost all had degrees in maths / finance / business - but with determination it can be done. She was extremely pro-active in putting in multiple applications for grad schemes, but actually got the first job she was interviewed for. No regrets from her about her choice of degree, which included a year abroad (she was a linguist).

DD3 will be going to uni this year to study a STEM subject for which there really aren't any alternative routes.

Schools benefit massively from uni 'admission stats'. Especially if they're 'RG'. The actual outcomes are of no interest to them whatsoever, which is a shame!

@PumpkinKnitter I do think the cache of university makes a difference. RG universities have excellent career resources, alumni etc connecting with current students through societies, and tailored support for the milkround.

Graduate schemes at large companies, with large graduate intakes are the easiest 'competitive' jobs you'll ever get in your working life. Apply early, and there are multiple places, possible for everyone who passes the bar to get in. Structured interview questions, a lot of which are similar year to year. You can find them on online forums or even get notes from seniors. They're very samey for each company and easy to prepare for. The career centers provide a lot of drilling.
Unlike an experienced hire role, which usually has multiple candidates going for the same role.

Of course RG is just a marketing term there are excellent universities like Bath for example which have a great reputation. 'lower ranked/'new'/whatever' universities with placement years, who get several graduates into good placement schemes annually are also a great option.

The problem is a degree from universities that have none of these. It's not to say that their graduates 'don't' get jobs. They're just jobs in which the degree isn't necessarily a value add, given the cost. I'm careful to caveat here, 'necessarily'. Obviously if living away from home, independence etc brings someone out of their shell, they've still benefitted.

The issue isn't limited to humanities ... DH's alma mater, for computer science (graduated less than a decade ago) only sent a couple of graduates to competitive graduate schemes every year. Most of his mates got related jobs - but they were entry level roles that didn't need degrees. The level of aspiration was very low and they haven't really advanced. But this still counts as 'graduate employment' for the stats. They don't state the percentage going to work for , say Fortune 500 companies or earning above a certain level, the way schools advertise their 'RG' and 'Oxbridge' stats.

I was very surprised to learn that their uni 'career assistance' consisted of a job board, career fair and CV workshop sessions. So different from my RG with as many mock interviews as the candidate wanted, mock assessment centres, specialist sessions on every step of the process from online tests to video interviews/technical interviews, and lots of alumni from the industry giving us personalised insights.

Again, DH made it onto a big graduate scheme , thanks to the influence of people he knew outside university. But again, one of the few.