A master's degree

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I've been wondering when it's better to do it immediately after university and when it's better to do it after working.

Has anyone or their DC simply done a master's because they couldn't secure a job after UG. Did the master's help?

Depends what your undergraduate is in and who you want to work for. A masters was preferred by the employer I wanted to work for, so I did it before I got a job. Do you have an idea of who you’d like to work for? Can you try and find out who they usually employ?

Agree it depends on the undergrad degree. I graduated in a big industry downturn and lots of my cohort did a masters (back in the day before fees and NERC/SERC grants were available). I did get a job and worked for 2 years before doing a masters, but by then I was in an industry that needed it to progress.

Out of interest what industry required the masters and what was it ?

I was also trying to get it is it ever worth doing a master's just for the "career boost" even if you don't wholeheartedly love the course.

I think it depends a lot on the destination of travel - if it's a very specific masters needed for a very specific career, or if it's an "enrichment" type masters.

I did a masters straight after my degree because I was feeling disillusioned. My degree hadn't allowed much opportunity for picking own topics/diversification and forced me through a lot of modules that I passionately hated, and my confidence was at rock bottom, so a masters was an opportunity to see if I could fall in love with it and wanted to carry on with a career in it or not. It was however at the start of the recession when it was pretty hard to get a graduate job in the first place, and I got a scholarship which also meant it was a reasonably economically viable option for me to get some breathing space at the time. For me it was worth it, because it helped me work out what I actually wanted to do, and I managed to get the research I did published with a bit of tweaking, which I think has indirectly helped me, and would certainly help if I wanted to side-step into academia at a later date. However, part of me wishes that I had - either straight before or after - gone and done some travelling, and that this may have been quite beneficial for me in terms of personal development and confidence. However, in reality, I probably didn't really have the funds. However, once you get on the hamster wheel of working and having "responsibilities", that becomes much harder to do...

I think if I was advising 21yo me knowing what I know now, I would say apply with deferred entry, get a working holiday visa and go travelling for 9-10 months, apply for a load of graduate jobs just before you fly home, see if anything lands on your lap and if not take up the masters!

Engineering. You need a masters to get chartered, although it’s now more common to do an integrated masters undergrad degree to fulfil that requirement.

You can borrow £12,167 from Student Finance for fees & maintenance. Typical fees are between £10k to £17k. That sealed the deal here for a delay.

Obviously a masters helps some get a job, for others it’s necessary, for others though it makes no difference. Knowing the job market is important. Some like the LLM from Cambridge are a bit of a golden ticket. Others won’t be. Also if your cv wasn’t great after undergrad, a masters might not be enough on its own. There might need to be work experience too. So look at the job, the course and the cv.

My middle one started a vocational masters immediately after undergrad as he couldn't find a grad job in the area he wanted (to be fair to him there weren't many jobs on offer plus he didn't have much time to devote to applications). Applied to a couple of jobs just after starting masters. Was offered one before Christmas. He thinks his masters helped in the algorithm for selection. I am not so sure. I suspect he would have been equally okay just applying again whilst working full time at his student job.

Surprised how expensive masters are. My DC switched unis to one with a higher rating for his subject - managed to get 20% off scholarship but it was still ££ considering online (still covid restrictions). He bailed from masters after 1st term to take job - employer was willing to wait but he wanted to work. Worth checking if there is an exit award and refund of fees for the masters if you go after 1 or 2 terms. Was in DCs case plus you'd need to really look at certificate really closely to realise its not a full masters.

Fortunately enough money is not an issue for us.
@SandyIrving did Ur DC get a PGDip instead?

MSc programmes always experience an increase in applications during an evonomic downturn

@paddingto Postgraduate certificate (needed 2 terms for diploma and 3 for masters). Certificate is something like Master of Science in <Subject> Postgraduate Certificate with Distinction. Each of his 4 recent bosses just read the first bit and last (he'd be first to say that no way would he have got a distinction over entire course (first term easiest).

@poetryandwine I think that’s very true. Job recruitment slows when employers are worried about their future orders and solvency! Grads are then almost bounced into doing something post grad. The important thing is to make the right choice and even move a bit sideways if the first degree has not really set you up for what you want. Many dc we know with masters still haven’t found it easy though. Some are still not earning very much, but stem is a better bet I think.

It’s also very much a parent issue too. We know parents who have been over the moon dc is doing a masters. They got their degrees in the last century when around 1/5 of the current numbers did a masters. They then think dc are special but without a healthy cv, they aren’t. Believing an academic qualification opens the doors fully isn’t really the case. Most people need a bit more, especially humanities grads.

My son did his degree at Cambridge and then started his masters at Bath at great expense- £12000 fees. The course was a huge disappointment and he has dropped out half way through. He did get a refund of 50% of the fees and has now got a job which he starts in may on a salary of 24000. The course was awful with very little contact hours.

I think there's always been an element of some students doing a Masters to either put off looking for a job for a while longer, or because they don't know what to do! My kids (all in their 20s now) call it a 'panic Masters'.

I think as PPs have said they are worth the expense if they are specifically going to help you in a particular career or to shift from one field to another. DD2 has used hers in this way and it has qualified her for a much more academic career than her undergraduate degree would have.

If a taught master's was your DCs back-up plan (i.e if all job options fail then do a masters and try again next year), did they apply as soon as applications opened for masters or did they wait? If they waited did they find the masters they wanted closed? Did they apply for many masters? Asking for DD for next year (social science). She won't be applying for anything above £15k ish and will limit herself to cities where she can live free with family/siblings so not London.

There shouldn't be too much competition for Masters so no rush to apply early. Most students apply in late spring/summer. Even early September!

DD graduated from Oxbridge in humanities last summer. She applied to an RG uni in early Nov and received an offer the next day to start this Sept. She would have applied for 2 others at the same uni, but went for a niche course rather than more generalist options in the same dept.

She attended a masters fayre in London last October to help her weigh up 2 or 3 RG options v a very prestigious MA elsewhere. She felt that the prestige of the leading uni didn't compensate for the excessive fees & lack of funding options, especially having met people from that uni at the fayre. They had told her that she would received an offer if she applied. Most post grad open events seem to be online. Her preferred option was her insurance uni at undergrad.

I think it depends on two things - what your undergraduate degree was and what the state of the economy looks like. When I was getting to the end of my degree, suddenly everyone who had internships in advertising were being told these had dried up (the year before this hadn't happened at all) so many of the students in my year went on to do an MA or an MSc or something to further qualify them before then looking at the job market again. Early 90s this was.

DS does economics. We'd like him to do a master's in economics or finance. It will help him stand out on a CV and surely it's easier to do a master's in Ur early 20s compared to later on in life.

He isn't too keen and would prefer to do one in "international development".

There is no point trying to make him do a Masters he isn’t interested in. How will he be motivated to study? Why do you think it is easier to study in your early 20s? I didn’t go to uni till I was in my 30s and went on to do a Masters after I graduated and was working.

I’ve been discussing this with my son tonight. He’s on a placement year from uni and will go back to uni in sept. In his placement virtually everyone is either an Oxbridge, Durham etc grad and has a masters. He feels he would benefit from doing one and it will help him but he wants to work and do it PT.

@paddingto The problem is, that if lots of dc have them, you don’t stand out. You can actually narrow down employment prospects because you have a focus for the masters. What if employers aren’t that bothered about your masters? If he wants a masters in international development, what job is he aiming for? What’s the competition and who is the employer? The government? He probably should do what he’s interested in but I would want to know his planned career strategy and how he intends to get the job he wants with that masters.

Personally I think he would be more inspired after a year or two in an office. He can then tailor it to his job prospects or interests on the ground and actually use it to climb the ladder in an informed way.

It must be his choice, OP. It is his life. It isn’t healthy for young adults not to be in control of their choices, at least to a reasonable extent. This isn’t a 30 year old asking you to support his acting lessons.

His choice is a good one in every sense of the word. It is fine for him to be responsible for financing it, as the majority are. ( I would hope any plans of your along the lines of financial support would not be conditioned by the difference between one sound choice and another).

Bowing to parental wishes is a recipe for MH problems that we see all the time in academia. And you are much more likely to succeed in a programme , which is what makes you stand out, generates special opportunities and great letters, etc, and ultimately good employment, if you are happy there.