Engineering and Science Admissions Test (ESAT)

[hedwigsmum]

Does anyone have DCs with experience of this test? My DS may be doing it for 2025 entry and is thinking about how to prepare for it.

So what do you propose - that Cambridge holds a lottery amping all the applicants with the right predicted grades?

Not everyone wants to live and work in London.

I see this narrative on mumsnet all the time.

Many young people don't just prioritise salary above all else. They want job satisfaction as well as being financially remunerated for it. It doesn't mean that they lack ambition.

Yes, that's what I'm proposing. 🙄

In the USA, many elite universities experimented with dropping the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). Almost all have reinstated it. It turns out, that while imperfect, giving everyone the same test asking questions relevant to their ability to succeed in an academic environment is imperfect, but fairer than anything else. Turns out, all the other indicators were more game-able. An objective, standardised test gave disadvantaged students the best chance.

@RampantIvy That is true for many engineering courses but it’s well known that Oxbridge in particular has plenty of engineering grads that don’t go into engineering.After all they only run general engineering which I think is the same for Durham. These DC often choose these courses because they don’t know what type of engineering they want. Many already come from London and SE so London and available salaries are hardly unknown to them. They do readily get other jobs. Probably not a phenomenon just reserved for London either. In engineering it’s definitely a career choice that some make - possibly fewer from Sheffield though. Imperial grads are more likely to go back home for work as it’s well documented grads from some countries don’t stay here to work. Others do.

it’s well known that Oxbridge in particular has plenty of engineering grads that don’t go into engineering.After all they only run general engineering which I think is the same for Durham.

And plenty that do, and from what I gather there's not much 'only' about Cambridge gen eng! I was talking to a young man last weekend who went there knowing exactly what he wanted to specialise in, but finds the knowledge of the other disciplines in the first two years extremely useful ... some engineering projects need some breadth as well as depth.

Anyway back to the topic of the test...my dd was in the first cohort taking the previous Cambridge engineering aptitude test in 2016, there was one sample paper. That, and some revision of yr 12 maths and physics in the summer holidays was evidently sufficient. It needed a grasp of the a level curriculum for those subjects as far as they'd done them and an ability to apply them to novel problems. Certainly no 'coaching'.

Possibly doing some of the past papers for that test and/or the corresponding test done by NatSci applicants might help with this new test?

I think using these previous past papers is a good idea, too. Certainly the best option available at the moment after the limited set of sample questions that will be released

@Err

@ErrolTheDragon Oxbridge have very small numbers of engineering students. Overall they don’t produce vast numbers of engineers. As you have no experience of engineering anywhere else, nor employed engineers, I’m not sure your breadth of knowledge is quite there on this one. Of course engineers are produced but everyone else recognises that some unis have a higher percentage choosing better paid jobs after an engineering degree. Oxbridge leads the way because of the many other grads that head into very highly paid careers and being numerate problem solvers, engineers follow suit. Just because your DD didn’t and her friends didn’t, doesn’t mean it’s not true.

It’s a great shame engineer is not a protected title. The general public has no idea that someone with a degree isn’t a qualified engineer. Let alone someone who’s never been near a university!

"The general public has no idea that someone with a degree isn’t a qualified engineer."

A certain well known FTSE 100 (actually FTSE 1) energy company pays a salary supplement to anyone with an engineering degree, even if they're not working in an engineering role. Not sure if they're unique in doing that, but it shows they value it as a mindset as well as a skillset.

@hedwigsmum Exactly. They can recruit engineering grads into a myriad of roles. However projected salaries for engineers are left behind when you compare to the finance sector. So that’s why many will look outside engineering and they are sought after. Pretending it doesn’t happen from a tiny cohort a pp knows is not the full picture.

Of course it happens - I just think you've a bit of tendency to overstate the case.

More info has been released now. My DD is dyslexic, and it’s not possible to apply for access arrangements yet, so I hesitate to register her.

https://esat-tmua.ac.uk/about-the-tests/esat-test/

Additional tests are inevitable as the proportion of Astars awarded means the pool of people applying for courses deemed desirable, but with finite spaces, is large and difficult to differentiate and why these MN boards are fully of threads (understandably) debating super-curriculars, PSs, courses with better applicant:place ratios etc.

My DCs exposure to additional tests has been via the TMUA (which has recently transferred to Pearson). Sitting it in October of Y13 and receiving receiving results (by paper and overall) in November helped them see where they were pitched nationally before deciding on their UCAS uni and course selection. This was very helpful and gave practical insight.

They signed up to one of the online AMSP courses (for state students) which was very low cost (bursaries also available) and comprised 6 one hour group sessions focused mostly on problem solving. So they got some support about how to approach logic questions but it was not OTT and did not require lots of free time etc.

Under the old TMUA regime, you could choose to release your results (or otherwise) to unis making reduced offers on the basis of good scores; this encouraged a 'have a go as nothing to lose' attitude. I am not sure that aspect has been retained under Pearson. However, additional tests, offering feedback by paper and, ideally, limited opportunity for the well resourced to dominate, can be helpful I would say.