Physics at uni – where?

[Changes17]

DS is in year 12 and wants to study physics at uni. Strong predicted grades for physics, maths, FM.

We're starting to think about open days. My question is: where would be a good place for someone to study physics who wants to be in a city, to not live at home (so not Bristol or Bath) and is potentially interested in going on to do a PhD and work in research? Probably more interested in theoretical than applied physics, has plumped for physics over maths because he enjoys both. Not that interested in Oxbridge at this stage. Thanks for any insights/experience.

DS is doing physics at Nottingham and enjoying it. Campus is lovely, he seems to have a good social life and does loads of sports. He's on the MPhys course and considering a PhD afterwards. He would recommend it.

Lots of good advice above. The general advice is that it's easier to enroll for the 4-year Msci then drop to Bsc than vice versa.

Manchester has a long history of excellence in physics going back to the days when Rutherford's research group was there.
The York physics dept do some excellent outreach work - google "binding blocks". The white rose uni group (including york and leeds) offer work experience to 6th formers in physics.
In London: Imperial, UCL and Kings all have good physics depts. Their research focus is in different areas and this slightly affects the flavours of the 3rd and 4th year course offerings.
Edinburgh, Glasgow and Strathclyde are also worth a look
One more that has not been mentioned above is Southampton - it would be an excellent place to do geophysics because of the unique strength of allied depts in earth sciences / oceanography, and it also has a strength in experimental particle physics due to strong links with CERN.

@poetryandwine what's the ref 2021?

Thanks for the detail on physics departments, @piisnot3 and @TriceratopsRocks for the Nottingham recommendation/experience. Lots to think about.

And thank you all - I wouldn't have known where to look and now we have the basis of a shortlist.

REF 2021 is new to me too, @NCTDN but I've found an explanation here: https://www.ref.ac.uk/

Top line is that: "The REF is the UK’s system for assessing the quality of research in UK higher education institutions."

Hi, @NCTDN

The UK periodically assesses the research strength of universities in order to allocate block research funding. The Research Exercise Framework or REF is the means for doing this; it used to be called the Research Assessment Exercise. Units of Assessment mostly correspond to units of undergraduate admissions.

As you can imagine this is an enormous undertaking so it is undertaken only about every seven years. The most recent REF was in 2021.

The results are publicly accessible. However in their original form they are somewhat cumbersome. For the purposes of undergraduate admissions, probably rankings are the most useful thing as research strength is only one consideration. This can be found be searching ‘REF 2021 rankings Subject’.

For subjects like English Literature that may lie within a School, you may need to search on the School or unit of admission.

ds1 has enjoyed his theoretical Physics course at Birmingham. He says look up the research interests of the Department and see if that matches your interests as another factor to consider. Of course many will change university if they want to go on and do a PhD but with so many universities offering Physics it helps in narrowing the short-list.

Worth having somewhere like York down as it has lower grade requirements than a lot of the other unis mentioned. Or it did 3 yrs back .

This is a great point, @Xylophonics I am a former Russell Group admissions tutor. Experience has made me a firm advocate of the proposition that ideally each applicant’s Insurance offer is 2 grades below their Firm offer - one grade in each of two subjects.

Yes, York is AAB I think for physics @Xylophonics so that would work for your criteria @poetryandwine. Maybe a BBB one would be a good plan as well, just in case? Thanks both!

Well DS can have only one Insurance choice ultimately. But at this stage it cannot hurt to consider several

DS consideed Manchester, Birmingham, Warwick and Imperial but plumped for Imperial.

Enrolled as Msci in Theoretical Physics, but changed to a Bsc after a year. Once he attained that he continued on to an Msci (still at Imperial) but in statistics. So they were very flexible and he had a lot of good support and advice from the uni.

His experience is that it was a hard graft but he made a lot of good friends and contacts, including some who facilitated tutoring opportunities to bolster student loan.

He's now doing a phd with UCL, but at CERN, so is benefitting from the experience of living in Geneva. (UCL have a department at CERN - a pp poster mentioned links to CERN via Southampton ).

He's not regretted his choices but it's been hard work, says the only thing he would have done differently would have been to have had a gap year just before starting uni.

That sounds amazing, @quella. I wish he could have a gap year but STEM courses seem very set on you going straight through from school. Maybe he can ask at open days.

Entry requirements can be higher for Mphys and we were told by Sheffield they are less likely to accept students if predicted grades are missed but have flexibility for Bsc so they suggest applying for Bsc and switching to Mphys after 1st year.

@Changes17, I think that was his experience as he was maths, Fm and maths at A level.

It was a bit daunting at first as he was allocated accommodation out at Woodward in North Acton as didn't get the halls near to campus at South Ken, but soon got acquainted with a bike ride via the canal network (saving on tubes!)

Best of luck at the open days!

Oops, that should be maths, fm and physics!

I am finding out so much from this, thanks all.

Yes, DS is doing those A-levels too, @Quella , so I guess a gap year isn't really realistic. Plus at this point he doesn't seem to want to have one.

Good to know re the different entry requirements, @Singlepringle1980. Did your DC go to Sheffield, and if so, how have they found it?

This is a fair point, although it is not PGs so much as the offer. If your PGs are 3 A stars and the standard offer is AAA, your offer should be AAA.

Each applicant and their family has to weigh up the situation

A good lower grade offer ABB or BBB would be Aberystwyth. (Slightly biased as I did my degree there) But it is a lovely place to study and had a good research team. I chose it as it was one of the few universities at the time do Physics with planetary and space physics, they do straight physics as well. It's actually gone up the rankings since I studied there, there lower offers reflects more that some students don't want to be in the middle of Wales. But this is actually a bonus as students tend to stay all year and it has a very active social life.

I just did a BSc, my husband did the Mphs with a year in industry. One of the advantages I found with Aber where smaller class sizes, when I looked at Manchester they would have been 200 students in some of the lectures. We never had more then 50 and some where as smaller as 20 when doing the more specific space models. Numbers have probably changed over the years but it maybe worth asking about this.

Have a look at St Andrews too, currently the #1 ranked university in the UK

Youngest is there doing an MPhys & absolutely thriving. Scottish system is slightly different in that it’s a 5 year course but with sufficient A stars achieved at A level you can do Direct Entry into second year, making it a 4 year course

Fabulous student satisfaction scores & very well regarded course. Can be hard to get into but worth a slot on your UCAS form imo

Thanks for the suggestions@MigGirl and @Lovetobake2. How have you found getting accommodation at St Andrews?

My daughter is in catered halls this year & there are more than 50 empty rooms in her halls alone so it hasn’t been a problem (first years who missed their offers last year). She chose Catered halls as they’re great for meeting people & making friends with everyone eating together at meal times. They also organise lots of social events

She can stay in halls for next year too (& many StA’s students do) but would like to live locally with her best friend. She’s just started viewing flats & is it competitive but she believes she’ll find something before the end of the semester. The university also retain some rooms in halls for returning students who haven’t found anything so she won’t be homeless (which is a relief). I think the Press documented accommodation issues were exacerbated by the large COVID cohort who are now finishing their final year so things should be better

Ah, that’s good to know, @Lovetobake2

Glad your daughter is enjoying it. Will put it on the long (and getting longer) list.

St Andrews definitely amazing but beware they reject straight 9, straight A* students every year. We were told this by the admissions officer last April in person and it happened to my DD this year. It's brutal.

As stated before, it is worth considering if the course is Bachelors or directly all the way to Master's. You cannot work as a physicist unless you are a member of Institute of physicist (IoP)and if you have "only" Bachelors, you can't be a member.

Maths grade is more important than physics grade from A levels. Many students who have A* / 9 drop out of the course because it is so hard.

Does he already know which area of physics he is into? I assume he may have if he already knows he wants to go into physics. Then it may be worth to check what specialty or emphasis the university has: materials, medicinal etc. And also if there is a year abroad option.

@Lovetobake2 stated "Scottish system is slightly different in that it’s a 5 year course but with sufficient A stars achieved at A level you can do Direct Entry into second year, making it a 4 year course" but many drop out already on first year. It may be worthwhile to do the first year even if entitled to get straight to the second year. So many have dropped out and failed exams recently in Edinburgh even if you needed 9s all around to get in.

You cannot work as a physicist unless you are a member of Institute of physicist (IoP)and if you have "only" Bachelors, you can't be a member.

This is incorrect in multiple ways. (I'm assuming you mean the Institute of Physics, there's no such thing as the "Institute of physicist".)

A MPhys/MSci Physics degree is the default requirement for IOP Chartered Physicist status (not IOP membership). There are alternative routes involving a BSc plus a teaching qualification or a report on a research project. Many professional physicists do not hold Chartered Physicist status.