A bit early...but trying to narrow down choices

[Wornoutlady]

My DS wants to study History. He'll be coming from the Bath/ Bristol area. So he is looking at applying to

York
Bristol
Newcastle
Cardiff
UEA

And this order is based on each Dept's A level requirements for entry, York & Bristol having the highest requirements, and the rest in roughly descending order.

Any thoughts or advice on this list? Alternates / things to avoid (I know UEA is having a financial crunch ATM, etc).

OP, you have not said whether your DS is currently in Y11 or Y12. If the former, then he may need to wait until he and his teachers start getting some clarity regarding his predicted grades, I would have thought.

If, say AAA was a stretch but within grasp, then an insurance choice like Cardiff at ABB makes sense. If he could likely achieved higher, it opens up a host of 'AAB typical offer' unis as viable insurance choices, many within comfortable reach of where you live.

My DC found attending Open Days in the Autumn of Y12 as well as the summer gave useful elapse time to visit different locations and to mull over things without undue pressure.

Some second order points to consider: Exeter offers History with a placement year option (which is unusual for that subject); Southampton guarantees first year accommodation for those putting it as insurance; York (as you may know) is these days an expensive city, even by southern standards.

@Piggywaspushed Homestly: what employer truly cares if Birmingham history is a renown department? It’s just not on the radar of employers who employ generalist grads. They don’t dive into that detail. It’s about what a grad can do. Not the expertise of a uni department Are JLR really going to go “wow, we must have that grad from Birmingham’s amazing history department” or would they just put the grad through their sifting process to decide who to interview? Who actually cares about these departments and why would it be better than Durham or KCL?

@Wornoutlady I agree it’s better to have a spread of entry grades - I was just musing why C and N were lowish in ranking for History. However, as I’m trying to say, uni doesn’t always make much difference in the end. What makes the difference is what dc can show an employer!

No tizer, I am talking about quality of student experience and teaching. I am surprised - surely you would agree there is no point travelling to Newcastle for a lower ranked degree than Birmingham which also has less good employment statistics. But I guess you are arguing for the sake of it, hey? Students do actually want to enjoy their degree and feel they are getting value.

You don't have experience of history degrees.

Southampton guarantees first year accommodation for those putting it as insurance;

On a side note, so does York!

I think Warwick also guarantees accommodation for all first years btw. They do a ballot a few days after results day, so even clearing students are in with everyone else.

@Piggywaspushed If you read what I said - I agreed with you! I would look at Birmingham!

What I don’t agree with is pushing it because it’s supposedly a renowned department. I’m asking who cares about this? Lots of dc will do very well with a Newcastle degree and no employer is going to think you are an idiot for not choosing Birmingham for history. This is because employers look at what you can do. They really don’t care about some professor or another or whether you thought teaching was ace when you haven’t compared it with elsewhere.

If everyone could agree that most 18 year olds want a job after uni and most won’t stay in a history department, we surely agree that developing the skills employers want is what matters. Therefore learning how to research, evaluating what you read, speed of assimilating info, passing selection tests, and generally being ready for work matters more than who thinks what history department is better.

It's not about the employers per se 'wanting' these history students. The article I posted says that Birmingham is the most targeted uni by employers, so for whatever complex reasons, the implication is they like Birmingham students (and the other unis mentioned - eg Leeds). If one was worried about employability for a 'softer' degree (and wasn't perhaps Oxbridge bound), it would make proper sense to look at the unis in the article.

Therefore learning how to research, evaluating what you read, speed of assimilating info, passing selection tests, and generally being ready for work matters more than who thinks what history department is better.

Isn't the point though that some unis will teach you these things (the academic skills listed above) to a higher standard than others? And that there is also value in being surrounded by like-minded, high-achieving and ambitious peers, the like of which you are more likely to find on higher-rated and more competitive courses?

@stoneysongs Yes. Up to a point. That is making the assumption that employers filter on uni attended believing some are better than others. They might do that but many now filter on tests. I absolutely believe in aiming high but many degrees are very good and the degree is not the sole thing an employer looks at. Do we really think a Birmingham history grad is greatly superior to a Newcastle one ? I doubt it and I doubt if employers would differentiate either.

Of course Birmingham is targeted by lots of employers. It’s a massive city with employers all over. All big city unis are targeted by employers. Of course Birmingham blow their own trumpet. Everywhere does! Years ago the Bar visited Oxbridge, Durham and Bristol. We now have a model of career advisers and employers visiting many unis but ones with lots of local employers get lots of them going to careers fairs. As you would expect. It doesn’t make the students better though. There is no doubt that a high proportion of very career driven students produce a different atmosphere with regard to employment but that’s mostly seen at the elite unis. There’s a bigger mix at others.

A history degree won’t actually get you the job above a politics grad or a philosophy grad or an English grad. You cannot be taught quick assimilation of info or how to pass tests. That’s within you. Obviously some people are brighter than others and are high flyers. Sitting next to them doesn’t make you substantially better or want what they want, but it might.

This isn't Birmingham 'blowing their own trumpet'. It's an annual report.

I think you are missing stony's point.

@TizerorFizz A history degree won’t actually get you the job above a politics grad or a philosophy grad or an English grad.
It will if you want to be a history teacher/lecturer/researcher. Why assume people can't or don't want to enter employment that relates to their degree?

That is making the assumption that employers filter on uni attended believing some are better than others. They might do that but many now filter on tests.

I meant the opposite actually - I agree that most employers will not care whether a history graduate comes from x or y university. But the uni with better teaching, higher expectations and higher flying peers will produce graduates more likely to be 'better' by employers' measures.

You cannot be taught quick assimilation of info

Maybe - but it takes a bit of practice and you won't figure out how to do it as an undergrad if it's not required by your course. I am assuming that courses at more competitive universities with higher entry requirements are more demanding and therefore teach more skills, or the same skills to a higher standard. Therein lies their value. You learn more (skills, not just content) and come out better prepared for life beyond university, more attractive to employers.

Obviously some people are brighter than others and are high flyers. Sitting next to them doesn’t make you substantially better or want what they want, but it might.

I think it's pretty accepted these days that the people around you have an effect on educational outcomes. Courses are designed for particular types of students aren't they - so the history course at a ÅAA uni might be different from the one at a CCC uni. More content, faster pace, less help, higher expectations. Plus there are advantages to having peers who inspire, compete, challenge.

Re placement years, the excellent Lancaster also has these but a long way from your neck of the woods, OP..

I think a pp alluded to it, but I’d see the specific type of history degree course he wants and go from there. Is he interested in medieval history, modern history, ancient history, Middle East/ Asian history, African history, First Nations history? Not all are taught at all the Universities. So start looking at the specific courses and the course modules list so he knows the course modules he has to take and the optional ones available.

Has he looked at Scottish Unis? Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and St Andrews have good history departments.

He might consider going abroad? There are alot of very high ranking degree history courses taught in English in the Netherlands and Germany, where even if you pay international tuition fees, the overall cost is still lower than a U.K. Uni.

Does he have any disabilities? Look at the support Uni has for students with disabilities as some care more and support more than others.

Does he prefer city, campus, or small town setting? Open days and driving around the local area can help with a decision.

What sort of help does the Uni do for summer internships? Having connections to the heritage sector and helping students research and apply for an internship after 2nd year can make or break securing a graduate job OR acceptance & scholarships for a masters program.

@Cherryon Yes, those are valid considerations. He is interested in Modern History and he's looked in detail at all the modules for each Dept for these universities I listed (and others). Not interested in a 4 yr degree at a Scottish university for whatever reason. No disabilities. Thanks for the other considerations. All valid.

@Icanttellyouanything The majority don’t though, do they. Stem - yrs. History, English, plus many others - they don’t. Look at what grads do after graduating on the course pages. As far as I’m aware, if you want to teach in a school they won’t be too bothered where your degree is from either.

@stoneysongs Not a single uni listed on this thread asks for CCC. All are a mix of A and B grades with mostly AAA. So the dc will be with decent young people everywhere. Generally though: I agree. CCC would attract (probably) a less academic DC. However they can have excellent skills in other ways or are we writing them off?

Lancaster does indeed have the option of History with a placement year and the minors approach to first year, allowing some variation. Although it does not guarantee first year accommodation for those insuring, on-campus supply is sufficiently abundant that it is unlikely to be an issue. Those with placement years are guaranteed uni accommodation in their final year.

Things might have changed at U of York as, if I am reading the detail correctly, accommodation is only guaranteed for those firming (see link). Nevertheless, (as OP and Piggy well know!) it offers students a great experience and, like Lancaster, has a collegiate set up.

U of B is one of those places where a visit can definitely be helpful. You get to understand it is a campus uni in a big city, with the dual benefits that brings. There is also a range of inexpensive, as well as expensive, on-campus and post-first year accommodation and that, with spiralling housing costs, is another factor in its favour.

www.york.ac.uk/study/accommodation/undergraduate/how-to-apply/#guarantee