Cambridge to 'drop state school admissions targets'

[Stripedquilt]

A lot about this in the news this morning.

One thing I don't understand - 'The institution is focusing on a new access plan to be put into action from the academic years 2025-26 to 2028-29.'

Will this apply to the applications made later this year for the intake of the academic year 2025-26? Or does it mean they start implementing the new access plan from 2025-26 onwards - so the state school targets would be dropped for those starting uni in autumn 2026, not 2025?

Thanks for any clarity!

So children in the grammars are all just lazy and they all live in mansions with pools and multiply cars. This sounds like a peculiar enclave indeed. They sound very different from the super selective grammar school DC I have known in different geographic areas - bright and motivated DC, a number of whom are genuinely deprived and also a lot of immigrant DC of parents with limited English. But hey, we all have our anecdotes and the overall reality probably lies somewhere between the two.

Of course, results of grammar school DC should be considered within their context, like all other schools, and whether they are state or private shouldn't matter, although I think it is difficult to dispute that GS funding levels are particularly derisory. The comprehensive sector is much, much bigger and should be the focus of refined WP practice to get a more accurate perspective of context beyond the type of school you attend. Many universities are already looking at a wide range of socio-economic factors but they all seem to do things a bit differently. A greater degree of uniformity and transparency would go a long way to societal acceptance of such programs and maybe the press would then lay off a bit too.

@Comefromaway You do, I assume, know the difference in price between a day in the cheapest area at the races and owning and riding a horse?! If not, I’m a bit worried about you.

The point I was making is that images are not reliable but are used to make people believe someone is posh and to be avoided. You have quickly asserted that paying for a cheap spectator sport is indeed the equivalent of owning snd riding a horse. So it works! It’s no more money than going to watch professional football or darts!

Also, why cannot young people accept others have more money and maybe a slightly different take on the world? Why do we all have to be the same? Why do you think 16/17 year olds have got all
the skills to converse with others? Some people are so quick to take offence. If it was the other way round and your dc was in the majority, I bet them and their friends would have great fun laughing at the perceived poshos. It’s about time everyone was more tolerant. No one is intending to offend.

Tutoring is a lot more affordable than private fees. Grammar is an opportunity for bright kids to have an excellent education without their families having to purchase a £££ home in catchment and without having to pay £££ in school fees.

^ in catchment meaning less than 1000m from the desired school. We all know that house prices near the best schools are unaffordable for many. Grammars have larger catchment, more diversity of house prices the dc come from and are more inclusive.

I ❤grammars . However the educational opportunities at selective private schools will almost always be more than what any dc can access at state grammar, due to funding.

Don't be daft, of course I do (I actually spent part of last week at Cheltenham).

But the perception today of racing as a posh spectator sport is rooted in what I outlined previously that young people are more likely to become involved as spectators in sports that they are able to also participate in. (This will be different for those from rural areas of course).

If it was the other way round and your dc was in the majority, I bet them and their friends would have great fun laughing at the perceived poshos. It’s about time everyone was more tolerant. No one is intending to offend.

My children went to private school (although ds moved to state from year 9 onwards). If anything it has made me even more aware of the disparity and obstacles that many young people have to overcome and that anything to help level the field can only be a good thing.

As far as I know, Oxford don’t publish grammar school percentage of students. Does Cambridge? Until student background and school are clearly identified, we really don’t know what state school means in terms of deprivation.

@Comefromaway So they must have been used to the concept of private medical care! I don’t see the issue when an unknown dc raised it. Would you prefer they talked about gangs and knife crime at school? You have also now clearly defined why school doesn’t matter. You bought into something but have risen above it. Others do the same!

If you read the thread properly it is clear that the poster was not talking about her own DC and private healthcare. I actually do see the issue of someone saying "Why don't they just go private?" in a group of people they don't know too well. It is gauche and shows a lack of social awareness. There is a whole raft of comfortable topics between private healthcare and gangs and knife crime, you know. It's called polite conversation.

Tizer, are you on glue? You really are not understanding me.

The disadvantaged young person has a major health issue affecting their life and was explaining the physical effect it had on them (they need an operation the NHS will not pay for) and the other student who comes from a priveleged private school background said to them, why don't you just go private. This made the young person I know feel all kinds of emotions when they know that their mother struggles to feed and clothe them and their younger sibling and that they were losing income from their part time job in order to attend the summer school in the first place. (it was an event for elite musicians).

@Comefromaway ? Somewhat rude of you.

Why discuss your health with people you don’t know? Except to make a polutucal point. Who else is interested?

So this was a one to one conversation. I also think it’s a fairly normal response when the NHS won’t provide something. You are ultra touchy about this. People often raise money for private healthcare. It’s not unusual these days for very ordinary people to pay privately. You are just out of touch. Best advice: don’t talk about politics or the NHS when you don’t know the person you are talking to. Choose another topic!

But the perception today of racing as a posh spectator sport is rooted in what I outlined previously that young people are more likely to become involved as spectators in sports that they are able to also participate in. (This will be different for those from rural areas of course.)

Comefromaway - there are loads of people who like racing but would never go riding. I doubt many of those who go racing at tracks near London such as Kempton and Epsom have plans to learn to ride.

@TizerorFizz Cambridge do publish this info in their annual stats report.
Success rate of application to offer (2022) was 25.8% for grammar schools, comprehensive is 17.4% and private is 18.9%. You can get numbers of applicants etc on there also by course. Application statistics | Undergraduate Study (cam.ac.uk)

It was a conversation amongst a group of young people on a residential music course. Playing an instrument is a physical activity and the condition was also visible. The young person was in pain with some breathing issues.

It is not usual in the circles this young person comes from to be able to raise money for private health care. The fact that you think it is usual in many circles only goes to highlight the disparity and the feelings of not belonging that such young people feel.

@BungleandGeorge

One quick point Oxford ad Cambridge are expensive cities but because of foundations etc - student accommodation ( I speak of Oxford ) can be very very much less than eg London Manchester Bristol I am sure there are others So accommodation costs it not necessarily a barrier.

These are valuable messages within the outreach initiatives @BasiliskStare. The reality is that college accommodation is much cheaper than options in other cities and there are more financial support funds available than elsewhere.

You are ultra touchy about this.

Yes I am and you know what, I'm proud to be. I'm proud to stand up for these often wonderful young people.

@user15913 Thank you. So 5% of dc in grammar schools get 25% of places. So punch 5x higher. If the 5% is accurate of course. That’s a better strike rate than private schools. I think they are now 17% in their 6th forms. Is that right?

@Comefromaway If people feel that a single throw away line in a conversation about health between 16/16 year olds defines anyone that is, frankly, sad. It’s very silly. Dc should get over it and move on. Accepting others for what they are is a virtue. Wallowing in self pity is not. Understanding differing positions and talking to people not like you is what uni brings. Being offended by others just drags you down. Don’t allow it to happen.

@Comefromaway well done you.

The posts you have written are far more rude and socially unaware. Many young people would indeed be very interested if someone were struggling and had a big healthcare issue. My DC would. I know they would not feel uncomfortable, would feel empathy and would never drop a clanger like "why don't you just go private" even though they themselves are very privileged and have access to it. It's all about the values you pass on to your children IMO.

Are you really suggesting that people should hide their disability so as not to bore others or make them feel uncomfortable?

So KatesProlapse, no MC children in Oxbridge since they are as a collective mass disgustingly overprivileged? The disdain in your final sentence at 12:34 made me laugh. Ours went prep and then grammar. We could afford private but happily the state pays for super selective schooling, so yes we have 3 cars, a £££ house and foreign holidays. Besides with VAT coming in, I was fucked if we’d give more money to HMRC. Also, last time I checked, people in this country are free to spend their money as they see fit. It sounds as though you’d like to mean test state school parents now.

Thank-you Forlorn - you get it.

It was actually my child who told me of this conversation (not thier supposedly wallowing in self-pity friend). And I'll be honest, I'd wallow in self pity if I'd had to contend with even just a few things they have.

Understanding differing positions and talking to people not like you is what uni brings.

I hope that some of the young people from more priveleged positions do exactly that as it seems that you are not willing to. I made sure that my own children understand that although their life is not always easy (they both have hidden disabilities for example) they need to understand that how others who are less priveleged may feel..

And it is only by understanding and acknowledging how these young people feel and the barriers they face, that we can begin to address the issues and hopefully increase access to the best universities for them.

Yes, I think if they are getting 5x the amount of pupils in under the pretence that they are "disadvantaged" they should start means testing Grammars.
You sound delightful too.