Fee-free (Scotland) or higher ranking (England)

[Pantsnomore]

DS currently has a mix of conditional and unconditional offers for Economics in England and Scotland. He is currently leaning to Bath over an easier offer which is tuition fee-free from Glasgow.

It is obviously his decision but I’d like to make sure that he’s aware of all the considerations. This is where we are at so far:

Bath (3 years)
Pros
Better ranked
Employment prospects
Prefers the aesthetics & thinks it’s more his vibe (rugby & pubs over clubs)

Cons
Fees
Distance from home / associated costs
His age (he will leave school at 17 and so I think would be bonkers to go this year - not yet sure if Bath would accept a deferred place
Terms of the condition are aspirational

Glasgow (4 years)
Pros
Fees
4 Years
Flexibility if he decides he doesn’t like Econ at Uni
Easy to achieve offer

Cons
Sees it as less prestigious
Too close to home
Thinks it’s more of a clubbing based social scene.

Are we missing anything? Is he mad to consider either a gap year for econ, or to go to England at 17? Anyone know anything about econ at Glasgow and/ or whether there is a more sports / pub based scene there.

Still think Glasgow is the better choice in this scenario but this derision/scoffing at Bath is bizarre.

In terms of university rankings, there is no comparison between Glasgow and Bath. Glasgow is generally considered as amongst the top one hundred universities in the world, while Bath ranks many levels below this.

In the Times Higher Education World University Rankings, Glasgow ranks 87th in the world and 10th in the UK. Bath is bunched as one of the universities between 250-300 and 21st in the UK.

For Economics and Econometrics, Glasgow ranks at 129 In the QS rankings, while Bath ranks in the 201-250 range for the subject.

Bath may be the posher university, but Glasgow is unquestionably the more presitigious.

Bath isn't especially posh!

Are the world rankings the be all and end all?

?

The University of Bath has been named one of top 150 universities in the world, in a major international ranking published today.
Bath climbed 31 places to 148th position in the QS World University Rankings 2024, up from joint 179th in 2023. The ranking is the University’s highest in the survey since 2010, confirming it among the top 10% of universities worldwide, according to QS.

I feel suddenly very defensive of Bath - note! I have no axe to grind. I'm literally from Glasgow!

Even in terminology much beloved on mumsnet, Glasgow is a Russell Group* university and Bath isn't.

(*Not that this means much in the real world.)

Yup - the same could be said of St Andrew's...

Guess it depends on who does the ranking. According to CUG Bath is number 8 and Glasgow number 14 for Economics (St A is 6) Is that enough to make a difference in outcome of overcome cost? I'm not sure how worldwide rankings really affect the decision unless applying to work in the US or elsewhere, and as everyone keeps saying, recruiting is getting more blind anyway.
As an aside, is Glasgow's rep really as a party school? We are going up for the offer day in a couple weeks and my DD is firmly teetotal!

Re Glasgow being close to home in Edinburgh - it is, but it is far enough away to spread his wings.
My nephew is currently in Glasgow reading Economics for a Bsc. Loves it. He is very sporty and has lots of opportunity to play sports ( football, athletics) .
Good social life and great connections to other cities.

mondaytosunday, when applying for a position in a London office, there is no guarantee that all those involved are British or even based in London. Many firms based in London have a global outlook with decisions taken by multinational teams spread across the globe.

I think Glasgow is clearly the best option. Your DS can leave debt-free from a Russell Group university. Glasgow is a brilliant city and he will soon find his tribe.

Re. his age - I went to Oxford and was friends with a Scottish girl who was 17 when we started first year. She didn’t seem much “younger” than the rest of us (the youngest English student had turned 18 at the very end of August so there wasn’t that much of a gap) and she didn’t have difficulty getting into pubs etc…!

Glasgow w no debt is a no brainer. Does he really want to sign up to 40 years of paying back a student loan? Get him to sit down and work out how much he will be paying each month and what the interest rate will be. And re Bath vs Glasgow social scene- Am sure he will find his tribe in Glasgow.

Glasgow - a thousand times over.

My DD is at Strathclyde and goes for all manner of nights out, rarely clubbing. Glasgow is such a vibrant city (which, I'm guessing you know).

Your ds would really be willing to rack up an extra £30k worth of debt for the sake of a couple of places on a fluid rankings list?

I suspect Glasgow will always be a prestigious uni.

If this is a snobbery thing it might help to know that Glasgow was the top destination last year of 6th formers from one of the big Edinburgh private schools...

Appreciate everyone’s input. I think Bath is likely deserving of its current rankings and I’m sure DS would/ will enjoy it. But I just can’t get over why pay for something when you’ve got a great free alternative. As higher tax payers we are also paying £8,000 more in tax than we would be in England so I’d rather we got some more benefit for that.

Could he firm Bath and insure Glasgow?

Trouble then is that if he decides he wants to go to Glasgow he has to deliberately get grades that Bath won't accept but Glasgow will. If your firm choice accepts you you can't choose to go to your insurance. If you decline your firm, you automatically decline your insurance as well and go into Clearing.

Rankings for universities of a similar standing are immaterial. There are 5 broad groups IMO outside of specialist institutions . 'Prestigious' (Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, Edinburgh, the ones with loads of Nobel Prize winners basically), top-tier Russell Group, lower tier Russell group/non-RG unis that are just as good, universities offering more 'vocational' courses that have a great reputation in their field, and the very bottom tier those with very low entry requirements/private universities.

OP Bath and Glasgow are both good universities. The former isn't worth getting into debt for! He can always do a Master's later if needed. The loans for a year fees + accommodation are far less than 3 years of an undergraduate degree.

Glasgow also has a lot of major graduate employers for his subject. Big banks (JP Morgan, Barclays), the Big4 accounting firms that also do economic consulting, etc. Plenty of opportunity.

Yeas, I know that : I was responding to some stats given about Bath.

No, you also asked if the world rankings are the be all and end all. My reply was explaining that they're not.
It's similar for international reputation. Most international employers will know the most prestigious ones. And top RG. That's about it, niche fields excepted.

The Bath campus is lovely, the city itself is a bit marmite. It’s also 6 - 7 hrs away from Edinburgh by train and the best part of 400 miles by road. Add in £30k debt for fees and, whilst it’s a well respected uni, logistics and costs make it much less appealing than Glasgow in my mind.

I do know a couple of Scottish students that went to Lancaster for economics - both now working in London.

It was rhetorical...

Might be worth Googling Adam Smith, the founder of modern economics. Glasgow alumn.

Glasgow is a fantastic city to be a student in - I’d argue way better than Bath.

There is no way Edinburgh is LSE for Economics. It’s ranked 12 th I think. What employers seriously look at world rankings though? Maybe a few but plenty won’t look at all! It’s all about getting through tests and Glasgow economists should not be disadvantaged. The fact Bath is not RG is obviously a case of missing the point. It’s a trusted university here and most alumni will work here. The same with Glasgow. So maybe save the money op? @Piggywaspushed There seems to be a bizarre misunderstanding of Bath as a university. Many think world standings when getting over 50 or 100 are a bit subjective anyway.

I think "is Bath better than Glasgow" is a bit irrelevant tbh. Glasgow is RG, Bath is on the list of non-RG which are RG+ (Lancaster, Loughborough, St Andrews). So both great unis, Bath esp good for maths and associated subjects. Somewhat astonished at the PP who said they didn't know Bath had a uni - it had one in the early 1980s so it's hardly a new uni!

But really why anyone who lives in Edinburgh and could go to uni fee-free in Glasgow would consider £30k extra debt and a mahoosive 7-hour+ drive home each term is beyond me. Rugby at Bath - I am sure they play rugby at Glasgow too? And I imagine you don't have to go clubbing. He will surely find his tribe in Glasgow.

What employers seriously look at world rankings though? Maybe a few but plenty won’t look at all! It’s all about getting through tests and Glasgow economists should not be disadvantaged

This is one of the most sensible things ever said on the multitude of threads where people are agonising over universities.

Employers do not have a detailed understanding of the numerous ranking tables. They are in a constant state of flux and vary from publication to publication. Employers certainly don’t know whether in any particular year when that particular student was applying, Bath ranked higher than Glasgow in a certain subject.

Employers will have a broad understanding of which universities are good universities but fundamentally the issue is - is this a good university where my child will develop the skills needed to get them through tests and interviews?

Glasgow is a good university. Bath is a good university. Both have the ability to give the DC what they need (rest is up to the child).

I’m a partner in a law firm. I have only relatively recently had a detailed knowledge of rankings and that’s because of my own DC going through the process. I only became aware of the term Russell Group fairly recently, again because of my own DC (it didn’t exist in the early 90s when I went). I’d regard both Glasgow and Bath as equally sound universities.

If a CV lands on my desk from the University of Eastern Daventry then I might wonder whether the candidate really has the academic rigour needed for the role but there really is no point agonising over Bath or Glasgow and to take on all that crippling debt to go to Bath is craziness. Loads of organisations now recruit blind and so the only thing that matters is do they have the skills and the personality required to get through the interview assessment process.

Thanks to everyone for sharing - there were indeed lots of considerations I hadn’t thought of. I read them out to DS last night and explained that (as I’ve said lots of times) we are transitioning from him being a child where I make the decisions to him being an adult where he makes them. But this is a perfect example of where I want to arm him with more facts and information to help him make his decision. He still might opt for Bath but at least he’s been given some more good for thought.

Dont suppose anyone knows of a good tuition fee calculator? I was looking for one and couldn’t see what the monthly repayment would be based on different salaries.