Law or accountancy apprenticeships

[WarningOfGails]

Does anyone/their DC have experience of these? DC is currently in Y11 so time left to think about it, but conscious that this time next year we will be gearing up for open days etc for university applications in the autumn… and she’s actually talking about doing an apprenticeship rather than uni. Interested to hear experiences.

I have two DC who have gone down the L7 accountancy & tax apprenticeship route, each following different qualification pathways and at different firms. There are no accountants (or lawyers for that matter) in our extended family so it is all unfamiliar territory to us. Our DC drove the process and it is better if that is the case.

You don't have to engage early with the idea of apprenticeships but it can help. In Sep 2025 your DD may be applying for one of the schemes for entry in Sep 2026, so making best use of the next 18 months is important and it all boils down to four things:

You can absolutely secure an apprenticeship with less than perfect academics but solid exam performance at GCSE and decent predicted grades for A level can help. You do need to convince your prospective employer that you are not likely to buckle when sitting a string of professional exams whilst also working.

Showing you can get on with others in a team setting whilst sometimes under pressure. Paid work and/or volunteering and/or team sports over an extended period all help. All of DCs school leaver colleagues are strong on this aspect.

Understanding what you are potentially signing up to. Booking onto the many online info sessions run by the top eight accountancy firms can be a really good source of info; some also offer specific online or in-person programmes for Y12s.

Your DD also needs to understand what she is potentially giving up by turning away from uni. Actively engaging with uni info and Open Days is important from that perspective as well as being necessary as a 'plan B' in case she is not successful in securing an apprenticeship.

I have less knowledge of legal apprenticeships except to say that the available number is much, much lower than on the accountancy side and qualification routes are in the process of major reform and so less settled and predictable.

Thank you! this is quite new to us, as a family we are used to the university route - in fact the ‘do history at uni then take postgrad qualifications in law afterwards’ etc route for these professions!

When you say GCSE results, DD should get 7-9s, maybe some 6s if she doesn’t pull her finger out over the next few months… assuming those are good enough?
if I search for apprenticeships near us, nothing comes up, so presumably she would have to expect to move away to take up an apprenticeship? Presumably it’s quite competitive to secure a space…

I agree about missing out on the uni experience, she does not like the idea of uni at all as she’s hated school - hoping that she will enjoy college more & perhaps explore her options a little more…

6 and 7 are good grades at GCSE (old money A and B). Ideally your DD should be aiming for 6 or higher for GCSE Eng Lang and Maths (unless extenuating circs); some programmes specifically ask for that; but remember that academics are only part of the assessment process, so it is about ticking other boxes too (ability to pass several sets of online tests, assessment centre and then final interview, having experiences as evidence of being able to handle the work of work, demonstrating you understand what is involved etc).

Accountancy apprenticeships for the 'Big 4' firms are concentrated in the major centres; the next tier of firms often will have opportunities in the same cities and then smaller cities/large towns too. Your DD will have to do some granular research on this; there is no single source of info. My DC chose to move away for their roles; this is unusual at school leaver level but is doable if you put your mind to it; others commute from home for the first year or two and then move out. Remember that many accountancy apprenticeships for Sep 2024 entry will have been filled at this stage of the year (and so not currently advertised). Your DD should monitor the market from Sep 24 onwards to get a sense of what is likely to be available in Sep 25.

L7 apprenticeships are competitive. When I last looked, the number of 18 year olds securing L7s (accountancy and other areas combined) was lower than the number of 18 year olds admitted to Oxford and Cambridge combined. It is not a better or worse path than uni, just very different. Accountancy apprentices do not step foot in a uni and, certainly from my DCs experience, you are treated, at 18, like a 22 year old grad entrant with all the responsibilities and constraints that go with that. As it happens, that suited my DC but not everyone is wired that way. It is also possible to access Apprenticeships at L4 and then progress to L7 but with the risk that the business throttles back the number who can progress from L4 to L7.

I don't have a child in this situation, however I do work for an accountancy practice who are a recognised Training Practice and we take on 2 apprentices in September each year. We take them on post A Level study so at 18 and fund them through all Levels of AAT and then also their ACCA exams too. Some find after 6 months-a year it's not what they anticipated and will apply for university for the next year but remain with us until then getting some work experience. We're only a small, local firm, who don't advertise the apprenticeships - we work alongside the local colleges instead, which may be why you're not finding any when searching.

that’s really helpful for me getting to grips with the landscape PerpetualOptimist, thank you. I do think apprenticeship could suit DD, she is a mature & responsible student who always has engaged well with adults. She has a very part time job she enjoys & volunteers with the Scouts. I can see her enjoying the workplace more than university tbh.

That’s interesting Q, I did wonder whether there would be mileage in DD approaching local firms as well.

DS is applying for comp sci apprenticeships so might be different but generally similar things have happened with most companies during the process if that's any use.

Generally they first send a CV and cover letter. So they need to make sure they have enough things going on to make a good CV. DS had done a lot of short courses, some volunteering, an EPQ, work experience, that sort of thing. Good grades and predicted grades definitely help. Cover letter obviously needs to talk about why they want to do this apprenticeship with this company.

Then there is often either a short phone interview just to check that you are not wildly unsuitable, or an online assessment. The online assessment often has personality tests where you rate how much you agree or disagree with statements and then there may be a few questions that you film yourself answering.

After that generally are the 'main' interviews sometimes online and sometimes face to face, might be a 70 minute interview, might be two interviews with different people, there might be a group task that you complete with other candidates. That's normally the end then, although JP Morgan for example, have another stage, they call an 'insight evening'.

It's quite an intense process, a lot of competition and definitely a bit of a numbers game. The more companies you apply to the more practice you get of the stages and the sort of questions you're likely to face - but you've got to balance that with the fact a lot of it happens around your mocks and you are likely to have to miss school for the 'big' interviews which sometimes go on all day - and they may have to travel quite a distance.

There are lots of positives though, it's made ds realise that if he goes to uni he needs to make sure he comes out the other end with much more than just a degree. He needs to be prepared to have a great CV with a lot of projects and extra curriculars to talk about at interview. It's taught him a lot about what to expect from personality tests, interviews, etc and he's seen that the more he does of them the more confident he has become because they often ask similar questions that he can prepare for ie why this company? Why an apprenticeship? Tell me about some group work you've done? Tell me about a time you've overcome adversity/solved a problem?

I'd say it's a generally a really good route to try for - ds had one company put him through all the stages and then email to say the recruitment process was 'on hold', but generally it's been a positive experience. I think it's good to keep other options open though (ie uni) just in case.

@WarningOfGails I looked at the stats on who gets these apprenticeships a while ago and the vast majority are 20/21 and over, although obviously some do go to 18 year olds. My ds (year 13) has been adamant for years that he's not going to uni. He's not a natural student (ADHD) although bright and he loves working (currently works 15-20 hours a week at Tesco) and having his own money and independence. He hates the thought of all that debt and also of living with slovenly young people who leave the kitchens/bathrooms in a mess! He's also not into the whole clubbing thing, he much prefers travelling, the gym, cooking and playing games with his mates. I totally agree with him that uni would be wrong for him; I really don't think it suits a lot of young people. My ds is going to work at Tesco and travel next year and maybe the year after before looking for an apprenticeship/job with prospects. I'm happy with this approach, as I feel he'll be much more likely to be successful in work if he starts at 19/20. It also means he can just focus on getting decent grades and earning money now, and put off the time consuming application process until later. So all that is just to say, that there's no need to necessarily have decided and started applying for things in year 13.

I am a solicitor. There are legal apprenticeships either at 18+ but also graduate ones when you are 21 and finish a degree where you work on the job and do your SQE (post grad law) exams. It is quite hard to be working full time if most of your friends are having a great time away from parents at university doing what they like however so definitely consider the pros and cons. Most solicitors do not do apprenticeships. however as all big employers are forced to pay an apprenticeship levy whether they like it or not the big firms like to get something of that money back by taking them on. https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/qualifying-without-a-degree/apprenticeships

It may be that some law firms prefer people who have followed the traditional route but the history of being an articled clerk for 6 years before qualifying once the professional exams are done is what solicitors certainly were doing in the 1800s - indeed I think families used to pay for someone to take on their child as a clerk as it was a bit of a burden for a firm to have to train someone who would probably not earn their keep for 6 years. So in that sense this kind of on the job training is nothing new for lawyers at all.

A final point from me @WarningOfGails would be to encourage your DD to be genuinely open minded about the uni route and try and find out what it can really be like.

One of my DC attended a local uni on a weekly basis for a time as part of a particular subject group; the other did a STEM residential at a different uni. These helped them see uni teaching and life (to an extent) from the inside.

I would also encourage the attendance of some Open Days in the autumn of Y12 as well as the summer because their thought processes need to be crystallising by the beginning of Y13 if they are looking to apply for Sep 26 entry.

As a PP mentioned, you can apply after A levels and both DC have some 'delayed' entry apprentices in their school leaver cohorts, so my advice on timelines is not the only path.

Just a general comment really, so ignore if unhelpful. I think my generation ( now parents of ye 12/13 dc) has an idea of Uni in our minds that no longer really exists. I went in the days of no fees, parents gave me a bit of money to live on and I had small loans. Had a total blast. Didn’t stress too much about what degree I got. Strolled into a grad scheme. Could afford a London flat share. Happy days. Hardly anyone moved home after unless their parents lived in Chelsea and they didn’t fancy slumming it in Kilburn with the rest of us.

Now, far more students commute from home, go home more regularly, socialise remotely with friends from home/ gaming buddies and the “real life” social life seems a bit of luck of the draw. I think going to Uni for the experience is quite risky especially given the costs and you may end up back in your parents’ house for years anyway.

I'm not saying “ university of life mate” by any means but I think as parents we need to be careful of not projecting our own experiences, and appreciating that Uni now is just not the springboard to independence that it was. Apprenticeships may be a better option all things considered.

I agree, but I do think it can be positively life changing for many to go away. One of my twins met his girl friend of 4 years there. Both twins have so many friends from there and most of them moved to London after Bristol. Of course 18 year olds make friends through hobbies and whilst living at home but it is not quite the same. I agree however that being home more and longer is a trend and even in work in many jobs if children move back after university as my twins have they work at least 3 days a week from home here (as I have every day since the 1990s). It is certainly a whole new post covid world for many office jobs.

My ds plans to live with his closest friends, who are also not going to uni - assuming they all get apprenticeships/jobs in the same area! I actually think he’ll probably leave home before dd, who’s done the traditional uni route. I’m sure he’ll meet loads of new people next year too as he does a 2 month course with an international team in NZ and then travels round Australia and south east Asia. There’s lots of different ways to meet people and gain independence, and the majority of people have always managed this without university.

I agree. When I went to university only 15% of people went and all the rest had no problems gaining independence, often earlier that those who did as I am from the NE originally with relatively low house prices so setting up a home even in a small flat you buy is not as hard as down here in the SE .

Hi @WarningOfGails my DD is doing a Level 7 accountancy (chartered, ACA). She applied in yr13 alongside university (economics) as wanted a plan B if she didn’t get the apprenticeship. Like @PerpetualOptimist DCs experiences, there were a series of tests, interviews, assessment day etc - she applied to around 8-9 firms (the big4, GT, Mazars, and a couple more mid tier firms & JPMorgan - latter wasn’t accountancy). She was incredibly focused and determined and I do think the A levels took a bit of a back seat during the process.
During onboarding they were told there’d been 5000 applications for 40 places across the country - it’s Big4 so you can expect a lot of applicants albeit I expect those 5000 ppl will have applied to all the other firms too. It’s defo competitive and I think it’s important that DC have a back up plan.

This is really interesting, I don’t think DD realises that it’s a competitive route! She’s been backing away from being earmarked for Oxbridge etc, hopefully things will shift for her at college though & she will have a better experience of education…

Not to put your DC or anyone else’s off but it’s important to realise that most of the apprenticeships are a ‘training contract’ rather than the usual employee. So if DC don’t pass exams, whilst they may get a second chance in some instances, most are terminated. Out of the 40 who started with DD 2.5 years ago only half are still there; some because accountancy wasn’t their thing, some because they failed an exam. It’s a 4 year contract with 15 exams and a final case study, all whilst working full time, and a ‘busy season’ where 14/16 hour days aren’t uncommon. It’s definitely different to a uni experience!

Good point. I have always liked the legal qualification process where you do all your courses and exams and only when those are fully over and passed do you start your 2 year of working as a trainee. Accountants in contrast will graduate in any degree and then start at least 3 years of working whilst doing exams for the whole period which might suit some but not all.

Is that the same for a law conversion @Xenia - they don’t work in the field whilst studying?

I work in a top ten accountancy firm and am involved in training these students. I myself went to uni and qualified as an accountant at this firm through the graduate pathway.
From this point of view, and from talking to our students, they have a really good experience. They qualify earlier by doing an apprenticeship than if they did, say, an accountancy and finance degree. Many live at home for a bit, save, and have a house deposit before they qualify.
A lot of effort is put into getting the right people and consequently the drop out rate is pretty low. You get college support for your exams, but your colleagues also support you, with hints, tips, rearranging work etc. We try to give people clients they are interested in.
Once you qualify, you can arrange secondments at clients or in other departments so you aren't stuck where you trained.
We are actively pushing recruiting school leavers but definitely it's the school leaver who should be researching it. There are plenty of information afternoons/evenings/work shadowing schemes.
AAT might be good people to talk to as they organise a lot of the apprenticeships, and also talk to your nearest accountancy firms directly - I'd go to the offices (email) as well as the website as my experience is the website is a HR thing and the info evenings etc are organised by local staff

NotDonna · Today 07:28
Is that the same for a law conversion @Xenia - they don’t work in the field whilst studying?

Yes. The law conversion course is a full academic year post grad and you don't work usually. Then you do a second post grad year (unless you did an LLB so don't need the law conversion) doing an SQE1 and SQE 2 course and exams (used to be LPC course and exams) - for solicitors.

However it can be more complicated than that eg you can only obtain one post grad student loan so if you haven't done an LLB you have to consider what to do eg you can get a loan covering most of the law conversion and SQE1 course if you include a masters (student only for post grads is only if you have a masters included) but that is not enough to cover course fees plus the SQE exam fees and then you have the SQE2 course to find too. Or you might have applied at university or after to law firms that will sponsor both yoru law conversion year and your SQE courses and exams - not surprisingly that is very very competitive. I think most people are not sponsored on those courses.

Another issue is that technically under th enew SXQE system you don't have to have an LLB or law conversion or SQE course at all - you could simply have a level 7 diploma in any subject at all, never taken a law course and self taught for the SQE exams., However most law firms want people to have done an LLB or law conversion and also an SQE course so although technically you don't need the law conversion it might mean you are unemployable if you don't do it.

Finally it is possible to take the law conversion over 2 years and then the SQE courses and exams over 2 years whilst working and some of the more lower paid/high street type law firms do have schemes where people can be a paralegal with them, do some of the various law exams and qualify over a longer period.

I think the paralegal route and part time study is becoming more popular. The big law firms will pay for GDL but these jobs are competitive. They don't employ 100% law grads so other employees do the GDL and then move into their solicitor qualification course. These are often fast track courses negotiated between the firms and the providers. Thera are lots of options but I don't know the stats on apprentices in law, except the companies don't have many of them. I assume they think their best chance of top class employees is still via graduates.

@NotDonna

My DD did the GDL and volunteered at the Cab whilst doing it. It's not taught 5 days a week. She needed more on her cv and wanted to be a barrister.