Further Maths & Chemistry Degree

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DS is about to drop FM (OCR). He’s also doing maths, chem & physics - all OCR.

He’s got his uni offers - to study Chemistry, and they’ve all offered on 3 a-levels. So theoretically he can drop an a-level.

Does anyone know how much FM is required for a chemistry degree? Or, what parts of FM / maths topics?

DS is struggling with FM - his mock was a C. The school hasn’t finished the syllabus yet. The maths paper was a comfortable A - not too far off A*. We think it might be better to drop FM and concentrate on polishing up the maths paper.

The back up plan is for DS to go over all / parts of the FM syllabus over the summer holiday, to help prep for uni.

He will need to let the unis know he’s dropping, they may revise his offers! Hopefully not, but they offered on the basis of him sitting four.

I agree with @Pinkpinkplonk (former RG STEM admissions tutor). DS may be able to notify the universities through UCAS, who also need to know; I am not sure. It is very important to do so: although I would not expect anywhere except possibly COWI even to consider revising the offer, they are allowed to do so. Also, if DS has not got their approval, when they see he has only three A levels they are allowed to rescind his offer, even uf he has Firmed them. This happens very occasionally when a School is oversubscribed.

Now to your question: outside of COWI (which may also be fine with dropping FM) I expect that most Chemistry degree programmes will not assume FM. DS should be fine academically. Given the current PG of C dropping it seems the best way to proceed.

Best wishes to him.

I'm not sure which topics are covered in maths vs FM nowadays.

4 decades ago when I did my chemistry degree, we had 2 maths sets - iirc one was for those with at least a B in A level maths (probably an A equivalent nowadays) and/or double maths ... I was probably in the minority who'd done the latter. The other set was joint with the biochemists and didn't assume even A level maths. It taught the maths they needed for their chemistry degrees.

We all did a statistics course as well. (At that time the pure and applied maths a levels didn't really do stats)bizarrely. A good grasp of stats is essential for any scientist.

So first question is, do the courses he's got offered for even require maths A level? And do they have differentiated maths sets?

While our 'hard maths' subsid course included some fairly hairy stuff, there really aren't many chemistry topics that require much A level maths. The only bit of specifically FM maths I can think of was the use of complex numbers in crystallography - quite a lot of people were bamboozled by an Argand diagram. Of the topics they might encounter at undergraduate level that's probably the most mathsy, that and computational chemistry ...no idea what they cover for that now at UG level, it was too new a field in my day!

If you say where his offers are from I might be able to take a quick look at the course descriptions and see if anything else jumps out at me mathswise.

But - apart from making sure the unis are informed he's dropping it - I really doubt there will be an issue. I'm going to guess the only chemistry courses which might assume FM and be heavily mathsy are the ones where the applicants would need A star predictions and an aptitude test to get an offer from - from what you've said I'm assuming it's not those.

Cheers Everyone.

What’s COWI? (Camb, Ox, Warwick, Imperial?)
PG of C?

Ox & Durham specify maths - but not FM or the grade. Non of the others ask for maths.

@ErrolTheDragon - unis are Oxford, Durham, Imperial, Bristol & Bath.

Hm, well my guess about unis was wrong! Yes, COWI are those 4 - the grouping specifically relates to their status for maths not chemistry.

Well, they may or may not adjust their offers - Oxford and imperial in part will doubtless have had a lot of applicants doing 4 a levels. But presumably they and maybe some of the others need a couple of A stars so if continuing with FM is likely to impact the other subjects at all then it may still be best to drop it. (Schools really should be advising kids if they should drop a fourth A level before they apply to unis, DDs did. It was easier in the old AS/A2 days of course).

I'll try to take a look at the course info later today.

Hi, OP.

I don’t know what Oxford and Imperial will do, I think it is 50-50. I hope the others won’t make any adjustments. Happily, you’ve seen that FM is clearly not required for the course anywhere. The bits that it sounds DD will need (from @ErrolTheDragon and friends) are quite fun and will be taught on site.

Did anyone mention that DD even needs to pass FM?

If the FM grade is not part of the offer and DD finds that she needs to keep FM for her top choice, there is nothing to stop her just blowing it off. All but ignore it, then sit the exam to fulfil the offer.

However I think many of us would find this approach very stressful so I am not recommending it except as a last resort.

Fingers crossed!

Yes... it really depends whether they'd have made an offer on 3 A levels, rather than that anyone needs FM to do a chemistry degree.

Congrats to them on getting some great offers . the Oxford MChem is very maths based . Maths A levels is required not FM . If they’ve done most of the FM course they will be fine but the maths quickly goes beyond A level FM . BUT he must tell his college . Some colleges, but not all, will not allow your to drop your 4th A level except under extenuating. Circumstances . I think the thought process is that they offered on the complete package- but it won’t matter what grade . FWIW my young person is doing this course without maths or physics A level ( a minority position but did do 4 A levels though) & it’s been hard work to get to the level. pretty much the whole Oxford interview was based around maths to see if they were up to it.

My friend’s son is at oxford doing chemistry. No further maths. He was very stressed at the start as he struggled more than his peers doing FM and he regretted not doing it. That’s just oxford though.

Just seen your child has offers from the top places including oxford. Congrats! FM does seem to be important for knowledge, but not to get in.

Congratulations to your DS. He has great offers.

Does your DS have extenuating circumstances for FM?

Chemistry at both Oxford and Imperial is very maths based. While it is not necessary for your DS to have FM, I still would not expect that a student accepted in either Oxford or Imperial would struggle that much in FM.

But to have got a place at those unis he would have been predicted grades for FM which should have indicated he was getting at least an A

In which case why would he need to drop it if he's due an A

Are the predictions incorrect then

Is he at an independent or state school

It sounds like he's been predicted an A or A star but is really a B if he's struggling

One of my Dc is heading for a good Chemistry degree at a very competitive Uni, with Maths, Physics, Chemistry, and doesn’t find the lack of FM a drawback.