Trinity College Dublin CAO points

[mondaytosunday]

Does anyone know how this works? The course says it needs 590 points (a bit more don't remember exactly). But with my DD's three A stars plus Astar EPQ it only added up to 586. She can't do better, other than adding an extra A level. This doesn't seem possible that this is the requirement?

It may have changed a bit since my day but I know that the courses with the highest points will include the bonus points you get for sitting higher level Maths I. Ireland. So if you have A level Maths, you would automatically get those points too? Is that one of her A levels? Even humanities applicants in Ireland will often sit higher level Maths to make sure that they can get the extra points needed for the really competitive humanities courses

Thanks @Sybill but math is her weakest subject. I guess the English exams don't tally well with the Irish system. By the points needed very few people from here could get in!

She’d still get extra points for Maths as long as she has it as one of her A levels, even if it’s at a lower grade. But you’re right - they don’t seem to translate A levels and the greater depth that’s involved quite as generously as the other way around. I sat the Leaving Cert many moons ago and I think it’s like a more advanced GCSE curriculum - so much broader, but less depth. It was regarded well for UK university entry though.

My own DD discounted Dublin for exactly this reason - she didn’t have A level Maths so would never get max points (which is what was needed for her subject). Which is a shame as Trinity is a fab university!

I know when my ds applied, Maths had a high coefficient so he had bonus points. He had the French Bac though. It you call Trinity they will talk you through it. They were really helpful to us as was UCD.
( Also there are loads of students from NI with A levels so they are well used to dealing with them).

From hat I remember you got bonus points for anything more than 12 in Maths - in the handbook you can find the correlation with A levels..

It has information here re A levels (have also included a screenshot)

https://www.tcd.ie/study/apply/admission-requirements/undergraduate/index.php

Yes call TCD. I advise French Bac students and unless they have maths they cannot achieve the CAO points for TCD unless it’s for the kind of course French families are not likely to be interested in.

In a very few courses like medicine there are additional points from the HPAT or similar assessment exam. Will require a call to TCD

A student with A(*) in 4 A-level subjects, including maths, will receive the maximum 625 CAO points:
https://www.tcd.ie/study/assets/pdfs/2023-cao-minimum-entry-points.pdf

Your DD scores less than this maximum because she did not have 4 A-level subjects and her A-level subjects did not include maths.

However, there is some hope.

Irelend is slowly re-adjusting its Leaving Cert exam grades back to pre-covid levels. The CAO points needed in 2024 are likely to drop a little and a course at 590+ points in 2023 could very well drop to below 585 points in 2024.

That’s a good point about the grade inflation of recent years @JocelynBurnell

You might be able to find the 2019 points requirement for the course of interest to get a rough idea of what a pre-COVID points requirement would have been

While the points could ease a little, they are unlikely to revert to 2019 levels. Applications to Trinity have increased dramatically in recent years.

Parent of a TCD student here in 2nd year. The points of 590 are from last summer's exam sitting, and therefore variable each year, based on that year's cohort performance from those applying for the course your DD has as top choice.

Do not sit maths (A, Further or Pure) if your DD hasn't sat all exams in single sitting, or preceding academic year as they won't count it.

As JoceylnB has stated, the results for 2024 may be different, as they will be pegging back to pre covid years - Ireland have had more grace than UK over the last few years making domestic students more competitive vs students from other education systems.

In summary, just because last year's results were around the circa 590 mark, doesn't mean to say this year's will be. Your DD's points are very close, and very high without the maths to bump up. If there are courses like JH ones that are similar to her first choice, then place them onto the CAO list too, sometimes even if you are not offered your top choice in round 1 on Offers Day due to cut off, they can can come back to you a few weeks later if those in R1 didn't take up their place. It slides down rounds until all places filled.

And yes to JB's above point, More students from overseas (especially EU) are applying to TCD since Brexit vs being charged international fees in for UK unis.

A few years back when we were looking a DD studying medicine in Ireland, she needed 4 A levels to gain sufficient points, as well as a language at GCSE.

Call the admissions office. My understanding is that the Republic is reconsidering their defacto 4 A level requirement in order to make it easier for students from Ulster to apply. I don’t have any idea when any changes might take effect.

I don't know what your DD wants to study, but as an example, English Studies lowest points for last entry (2023) was 542 and for Eng Studies JH circa 546 - 577. This means the last place on the course was at these levels.

If it's humanities courses, not all sit maths accruing the extra points, unless you are applying from from the Irish Leaving Cert and sat the extra maths paper. So easier to get onto most humanties vs the STEM/higher demand business/law etc (exc Med/VM) where many students will have the max 625. Then it's lottery placement.

Honestly, if it's a consideration for her, with 590 points she stands a good chance of getting her top choice. And if she runs her app (no PS, references, condierations etc) alongside her UCAS options and makes a call post A levels/Leaving Cert waiting for CAO Offers Day, then all you've lost is admin time of application and possibly a mental investment into her UK choice as students accept their places post A levels.

Holding nerve is the hardest part as offers won't come out until circa end of Aug. Was 8 Sept for my DD and then a 7 day turn around to withdraw from Durham to accept TCD, which was always her first choice.

Good luck with her options.

Thanks all the course she was looking at is a joint honours - Sociology and something - I'm not sure. She has 586 points. It's also a four year program - not sure about that!
And, dos anyone know, can she still firm her place in England while applying as the results aren't out til after that date I believe.
Anyway she's just grasping due to Cambridge not offering. She has offers from Durham and Glasgow and is waiting to hear from Bath.

THe table @KittyMcKitty refers to says that EPQ is scored as an AS level rather than a short course - if that is the case then I think the A star would give your daughter 600 points?

Both systems separate. She can apply as she has in parallel and retain UK options right up to matriculation. Including applying for UK finance until the decision is to withdraw. Or continue with UK firm.

My DD and DH attended the open day at Trinity College Dublin this year. They came away liking it but sad as the points system disadvantages students sitting A levels. We are Northern Ireland based so sit A Levels. DD would have to do better to get into Trinity Dublin than her current offer from Cambridge. Have been around this loop before with older DD and again she needed higher grades than Oxford! The fees are lower for us than England but the accommodation is a nightmare and the cost of living very high in Dublin. Trinity is experiencing a "Normal People" boost in popularity. There is regular political noise around the difficult for students from the North applying. Apparently another easing around this is planned for the cohort next year.

Congratulations to your DD Braid2 on the C offer. DD was a rejected candidate post interviews 2 years ago and was set to go to Durham, until she wasn't (offers are so much later via CAO vs A Levels day). But waiting for a first choice offer was with baited breath until offers came out, and like you say, the points system makes it so much harder for students doing A levels, if you haven't supplemented with another A level, EPQ, Maths/FM A level or an AS. An AS (as DD did in Maths) top grade is A vs an A* for EPQ, so again, less points vs EPQ. And she didn't get the extra 25 marks that she would have done full A Maths had she thought about it more at 6th form.

Lots of pros and cons to Ireland study, to name just a few:
Pros:

• Less Brits (yep, some students do want to get away from their home crowd), feels more like an international option
• Lower tuition fees (2k EUR last 2 years (Ireland gave 1k discount due to covid disruption, normally 3K EUR).
• UK/NI students come under EEA rules, so same fees as Irish students (I believe NI students also can apply for Govt support?)
• Good contact hours from what I can ascertain across several courses
• Timely course feedback/marking
• Very down to earth mix, mix of domestic and international students, both from EU, US and wider
• Independent living (halls are not catered)
• City living, small but lively. DD lives 15 mins from TCD last 2 years
• Good society life, if that's what you want
• ACCESS TO ERASMUS! Most courses, subject to you performing well in course cohort, unless mandatory (e.g. languages)
• Bright students can apply for Foundation scholarship in Y2 giving them 5 years of free benefits (housing, tuition waivers, meals, stipend etc) for remainder UG/PG studies
• Airport is close, and access to travel good vs some UK geographies (as a language student this has been invaluable)
• If there's a concern that it won't be as 'clever' as UK options, the points system shows you that it actually is, lots of smart, driven students who often have to achieve grades so much higher than their UK offers
• Lots of industry EMEA based offices, opportunities for work placements/future jobs. Tech in particular.

Cons:

• Potential disadvantage on points conversion, especially vs A levels if only 3 sat
• No access to student finance (UK mainland)
• Independent living, not for all if you are not able to put yourself out there to mix
• Housing shortage, impact of accom if you don't get into halls (TCD and private). But, it's there, if you are organised.
• Cost of halls high (but not as high as average in London)
• Cost of living is high, food but especially alcohol. There is very little student offers like in other uni cities, even in Student Bar. Food costs are high due to eurozone.
• No collegiate system providing ready-made community
• Doesn't rank as highly as UK unis (not an issue for us, but parents/students are driven by league tables)
• Can be tension towards UK students (especially english) but this is anecdotal
• More difficult to get local PT work (but not impossible).

Bit if a download, it isn't for everyone, but worked for us as mine is pretty independent and may have felt quite claustrophobic in subsequent years in UK. It will never be a mainstream option as the points and lack of funding makes it difficult for many unfortunately, but it is also getting more consideration now due the study abroad challenges students face, and for this reason alone, I'd recommend it on the prospect list for any YP that want a 4 year option with YA access, who may not be applicable for Turing funding.

Hi @ealingwestmum I just found this thread having started one earlier. DD has been offered a place today to study history. She does not have allocated accommodation. She also needs to weigh up whether or not to take the place over UCL to study the same. She has been a boarder, so I have no worries there but is she entitled to any finance/student loans? As a family we only met the entitlement for a basic maintenance loan so we wouldn’t qualify for anything means tested - but is there anything else available akin to the UK student loans?

How much should we budget for living expenses etc in your experience? Thanks for any insight you might have.

@mondaytosunday did your DC end up applying? Mine also was rejected from Oxbridge so a first round offer today has made her happier!

Congratulations to your DD @Friendshipgroup, and to the choices she has!

In answer to your question re finance, there isn’t access unfortunately unless she’s in NI. There may be scholarships specific to history, but most will be for those from disadvantaged backgrounds. So it’s 3k€ tuition per year.

Re accommodation, there’s lots of movement between Round Offers. If she wasn’t offered Trinity Halls and on waitlist, keep engaged. Mine was in KC for last 2 years, last year’s fees for 38 weeks was 9,200€, most Yugo are similarly priced and they will have a mix of year groups in them.

The possible benefits to TCD, depending on her single/JH interests will be full access to Erasmus funding (DD’s history friends are all YA this 3rd year), if she wants it and academically qualifies.

If she’s bright and willing, there’s the Foundation Scholarship, available to all. It’s sat in Jan Y2, successful scholars get up to 5 years free tuition/accom/stipend etc for their Y3 to post grad studies. Massive saving if she’s awarded.

Re living costs, Dublin is expensive! But we were able to fund our DD £350 per month (exc phone) and she managed well, subsidised by her income from PT work. And she is a party type girl, and travelled a lot between UK unis/short breaks within budget.

Re your DD’s choice, it was a no brainer for mine, she was ready to leave the London crowd but the 2 semester calendar means they can be home from early May, flights into LHR/LGW are frequent.

The mix of student body is good, domestic/US and lots of Europeans wanting a EU English speaking UG experience post Brexit.

One final positive (I have rambled on!); DD sums up TCD by saying humanities students do not feel 2nd class there to STEM, business or medics as she feels some do at their UK unis. Anecdotal, but that’s her view. It’s not always rosy but overall, she has had no regrets.

DD will have saved on our funding her UG but it will come in substantially less than 4 years UK SF accrued, and Y3 abroad will be £ low due to geography of both semesters, Erasmus funding and subject related scholarships.

Good luck to your DD on deciding! Keep UCL offer until all is finalised, if TCD is her first choice, I.e. accommodation secured and paid for.

Just to add, I think 350£ is on the low side vs peers, it’s because DD is part funding the living costs side.

@ealingwestmum thank you so much, it’s been a whirlwind today! DD has emailed about halls etc. are you saying tuition plus accommodation is €9200 or is that just accommodation alone? (Yikes!)

No worries. Private Kavanagh Court halls, accom only I’m afraid. I know, yikes, but then I believe it’s comparable to some London halls too. Students live at home there and commute in, much like students from London.

@ealingwestmum Thanks again. DD seemed to think accommodation costs were cheaper than London but I doubt it!

I’m sure I’ll have other questions…!!!