Home Student vs International Student

[Zimunya]

DD is a British citizen, although she was born abroad, and has lived abroad most of her life. On 02/09/21 we moved permanently to the UK, as DH moved to a job here. She has applied to unis via UCAS. Birmingham Uni have assessed her as an overseas student for the purposes of fees. They state, "To assess someone's fee status we refer to UKCISA guidelines - these stipulate that in order to be classified as Home as a British Citizen you have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands for the full three year period before the first day of the first academic year of the course. This means you need to have been resident in the UK since 1st September 2021. As such you will remain as Overseas for the fee purposes for 2024 entry." The first day of her course is 30 September 2024, so to me that is the start of her academic year. Is this incorrect?

I've tried to have a look at the UKCISA guidelines, which are not easy to understand in this instance. There seems to be a difference between the ‘first day of the academic year you are paying fees for’, or the ‘first day of the first academic year of the course’, and I am not sure which one is which.

Does anyone know? It seems super harsh to condemn her to overseas fees for the sake of one day.

@poetryandwine and @Bunnyannesummers - you both gave Electronicmind some great advice on her recent thread, and I was wondering if you had any insights on this?

Academic year start date is always 1st September for these purposes, because every uni has a different start date, so keeping it on the 1st makes it equal for all students no matter where they attend.

She can take a gap year, plenty of students have to for this sort of reason.

Hit send too soon!!

However, some universities may still assess her as Home, depending on where you were living, if you kept property here etc. The process varies slightly between unis, but if they’re using the first date of the academic year it is the 1st September.

Also worth bearing in mind each of your five unis assess you independently as home or international, so your answer may vary. But then student finance is a separate assessment.

So you can be assessed by a uni as a Home student but not be eligible for student finance, or assessed by a uni as an International student, but be eligible for student finance, so you need to bear that in mind. I would suggest contacting student finance now with your circumstances to check eligibility.

Thanks @Bunnyannesummers - that explains it.
The following extract from the UK Parliament Commons Library (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/eligibility-for-home-fee-status-and-student-support-in-england/):

“Who determines eligibility?
Higher education providers in England allocate their students ‘home’ or ‘overseas/international’ status for the purpose of charging tuition fees. Undergraduate home fees are currently capped by the Government at £9,250. Overseas fees are set by providers and can be much higher depending on the course and provider.
When making decisions on fee status, higher education providers follow regulations produced by the Department for Education but may also exercise some discretion"
... indicates that the uni can exercise discretion. I guess we will ask for some, and see how it goes. Thank you.

Responded before seeing your second post - thank you.

It pains me to say it, OP, but @Bunnyannesummers is correct. It has been a little while since I did Admissions so I rooted around on the internet. Several major universities posted the same policy as Birmingham. The real kicker is that I found a public document in the House of Commons under the category of Constituency Advice confirming this.

I agree that in the case of your DD this feels like hewing to the letter rather than the spirit of the law. Unfortunately I cannot imagine any university letting go of all that dosh when not required to. I am so sorry.

Would DD consider a gap year? I think most students who are able to plan a productive gap year - be that work, volunteering, independent study, travel, adventure or a combination thereof - are significantly better off and more prepared for university for their experiences. But I know it usn’t always possible.

Were you always intending to return to the UK, OP, and is there any chance that you might be able to prove that? E.g. did you continue to maintain a property here etc? She has to demonstrate that she was ordinarily resident in the UK for the relevant period, which isn't necessarily the same as actually resident.

I agree that it seems harsh for the sake of a single day, but I guess they have their criteria and need to apply them consistently. The fee status assessment is down to their own discretion so other universities might assess differently. Worst case scenario is that she'll need to take a gap year, which wouldn't be the end of the world?

OP,

I am delighted with the document you found! It will be great if some university decides your way. It is the rational response. But budgets are so stressed I will just say that I would like for my pessimism to be wrong, but I wouldn’t bet on it. 10 years ago my School probably would have made an exception for your DD, but not today.

Also, you should be able to appeal against their decision, which would at least get them to look at it again - might be worth it if you have additional evidence that you can add in relation to being ordinarily resident. Probably not worth it if they're just going to review what you've already given them and reach the same conclusion.

Before I sound too pessimistic, I think this situation is definitely worth an appeal, particularly if you have any mitigating factors.

Also, is DD’s degree programme highly popular or a bit obscure? A programme that needs bums on seats may be more flexible. (Mine does not and this may have coloured my response, for which I apologise)

I hope you find some sanity

My niece, who was a British citizen but left the UK age 3, asked lots of Universities and was able to find a RG University ready to consider her a home student.

@Zimunya I would definitely try to talk to a human in the admissions office. As it is about discretion, if you can gently make your case they may revert to Home fees. I am a UK citizen living overseas and I was granted home fees, while living overseas to do an online MA because I am officially a "trailing spouse" and according to "regulations" if I weren't in this situation I would be living in the UK (in theory). So literally anything is possible. They don't have to adhere to the overseas status because of the different date in Sept. at all.

I think most universities would probably classify you as a home student in that scenario. It's all about ordinary residence and not about where you actually live at any given time. And that's quite a subjective judgement, which is why assessments may vary. It's definitely worth an ask in my view, especially if your family had always intended to return to the UK.

Although it is HE institutions that make the decision (based on UKCISA's interpretation of the relevant legislation) about whether an individual student has home or international fees status, they are monitored by the Office for Students (OfS) and UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI). If they think we are unreasonably charging students international fees when they should be eligible for home fees, or admitting international students who we don't count as international students in official statistics, we will be in bother, which could be fairly serious. Universities do, therefore, try very hard to get this right.

It doesn't matter that it's one day. If your daughter was classed as home, that university would have redefined the start of the acedmic year as 02 Sep rather than 01 Sep, which it doesn't have authority to do, and then someone who became resident on 03 Sep would only be one day beyond the new deadline. And so on. We have this argument endlessly with students who fail a module by one mark. If their mark is below the pass mark, it makes no difference whether it's one mark below or 40 marks below. That's the whole point of a pass mark: you're either above it or below it. If we lower the pass mark for one student, anyone with a mark one lower than them will now be just one mark below the pass mark. And so on.

On the other hand, I think most universities do change the fees if your status changes while you're on the course (e.g. someone being granted indefinite leave to remain). So she could check whether she'd be paying home fees in year 2. But it would be better still just to defer for a year.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I am not sure most universities would do this. I had to fill in a huge amount of paperwork in order for them to "assess" me. What they overlooked was the fact I'm actually now an American citizen and own property in the US and have lived here for over 15 yrs. They didn't care about that or require an "intent to return" which I agree, probably should have been part of the mix.

I used to have some involvement in appeals on fee status. Nationality wouldn't have been a factor that we looked at, so your American citizenship wouldn't have been an issue. However, we would have required some kind of evidence that reflected your "ordinary residence" in the UK, which would typically include some evidence of an intent to return. For a lot of "trailing spouses", this might be fairly easy to demonstrate, as they are only living overseas because of their spouse's job, and their permanent home remains in the UK. In your case, it sounds more like you may have emigrated permanently, and if that's the case, they probably shouldn't have assessed you as a home student... though it's obviously good for you that they did!

Thanks everyone for your input - I really appreciate it.

@JesusWeptLady - thanks, I will try and talk to a human. That might make a difference.

@poetryandwine - my Dad always said there was a very fine line between pessism and realism, so don't feel bad. I would rather go into any discussion with an appreciation of how likely, or not, we are in being successful. I appreciate your input. DD's programme sadly, is not obscure - it is Media and Communications. She wants to be a journalist, but was advised that Media and Comms would be a better course and lead to more job opportunties, whilst not cutting out the journalism opportunity.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves - we don't have property in the UK, so it will be difficult to show any more evidence, I think. We did always intend to settle in the UK - but much later on. Unfortunately, DH got made redundant abroad during COVID, and also one year into DD's GCSE programme, so the move home was made earlier than planned, and not in ideal circumstances.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne - completely take your point about the one day.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne Unfortunately universities do not change the fees while the student is doing the course. The status remains the same along the whole duration. I know a few students who had to take gap 1-2 years for this reason.
@Zimunya I think its worth trying to persuade the university. Good luck!

Well, OP, a gap year doing the right voluntary work could be really beneficial for her, I think. I wish I had some expertise in this area but perhaps other MumsNetters do

I know this wasn't what you asked, but English UG followed by Journalism at PG is a stronger route academically. Media may be too broad a subject - it tends to be more geared towards Marketing type roles.

@titchy - thanks. Yes, it is stronger academically, but numerous teachers and career advisers have advised that journalisim is too constricting on it's own. I have no experience of media or journalism, so have to be guided by the experts!

@Bunnyannesummers and @poetryandwine - good news! You both said other universities might view it differently, and you were so right! She has been assessed as a hone student from two other universities and received conditional offers. Yay! Thank you all for your help and advice.

Great! Just to warn you though you also need the SLC to assess her as home.

Thanks, Titchy. Yes, that will be the next battle o)

Great news, OP. Fingers crossed for the assessment

Great news! Good luck to her with her news steps, and good luck with SLC.

You can contact them now to discuss eligibility ahead of applications actually opening too.