If you Suspend Studies, can you apply elsewhere via UCAS meantime?

[54isanopendoor]

Just that really, in case anyone knows before UCAS open tomorrow morning?

Ds had an awful start to his Degree. His Uni have said he can Suspend his Studies (in which case they won't charge us) Or leave now, (then they will).
He hated his course & I've been very unimpressed with the support (he is disabled) but a 'place in hand' next year is something I guess (dont care about £)

We went back yesterday to the Open Day for a Uni he had an offer from last year (it was a mistake not to go there, in hindsight). We spoke to Admissions, they were very sympathatic, but of course he has to apply from scratch via UCAS
(1st time, as last year his offers were via Clearing). As he is 'grade in hand' they'd let him know within a couple of weeks so he could 'know by end of the month'.

I realise that he cannot accept a place via UCAS whilst he's still technically a student at the 1st Uni (even if 'suspended studies') but can he apply to see whether he could be offered a place at 2nd Uni, does anyone know please?

Yes he can apply, DD did exactly this. He will need to get support from his school and the university may ask for a letter from his current university. He can also hold an offer from new university and a suspended place at his current university

@TheDayBeforeYouCame Ah! Interesting... Thank you.
He came via College. His old Tutor refused to give a Reference - not just to Ds but to all his class, as he was on strike & has now left (fired, we heard) so that might be tricky but his old Head of Dept would help as he thinks v highly of Ds.
His current Uni couldn't give one as he has not attended really.

He is very nervous of the Personal Statement etc as he's not done one before.
I wonder whether he just applies & doesn't mention the current Uni cock up?
Or how much of it he devotes to 'explaining himself'?

also, can he apply for more than one course at the same Uni
(& will that look like he's no idea what he wants I wonder?)
He wants to try this new Uni as it's support should be much better (& it's actually likely more suitable in every way he just panicked & made a bad choice)
but he's not sure which of a number of computing degreees he wants to try.

sorry, thinking out loud here but any input gratefully received...

Glad your DS enjoyed the open day.

I'd get him to concentrate on why he has chosen the particular course and why he would be good for the course. Website will have guidance on exactly what they want to see. I believe they do actually read the PS (were on the list my DCs school said PS matters).

Did they say anything about applying for 2 courses at the open day? My DDs uni ask you to say which is your top choice if you apply for more than one with them. Might make the PS more difficult with two but if similar might be okay to work in.

Could he make a decision on which of the new unis courses before applying?

Thinking his referee could make a brief reference to his false start so your DD can keep his PS positive/enthusiastic about new course.

Great he will hear quickly so you can get him sorted support wise and accommodation.

Hi, OP -

I also think your DS needs to keep his PS positive. Let the referee do any criticising.

It is best if DS can identify more than one new uni. Is that possible? It is always best not to put all your eggs in one basket if you can avoid it. The ‘basket’ is really the uni, not the number of courses within it that interest him. Computing is very competitive!

I am afraid that at my place and others I know of, students who apply for more than one course run a strong risk of being accepted onto the less popular of the two courses unless they are absolute superstars. DS may have greater chances of being accepted to the university by applying to two programmes, but he may be lessening the chance of being accepted on to his preferred programme. It depends which is more important to him.

Emailing an admissions tutor might be a good idea. I like the way @SandyIrving ’s DD’s university asks students to rank their choices.

When I said Computing is competitive, I meant getting on to a degree programme. We need more people with all sorts of computing degrees. In that sense, DS should not agonise over which programme is best. He should rank what he likes best as tops and hopefully it will all be good. But I hope he will apply to more than ine uni now.

Again, very best wishes to him

Hi @SandyIrving
Hi @poetryandwine

THANK YOU both so much for your comments.

I did call UCAS this morning (as Uni B say we'd need to apply from scratch)
They said he can't apply for Uni B whilst suspended at Uni A: disheartening.
I did call back (as I got differing advice from UCAS last summer on different calls) & spoke to a much more informed sounding person. They said Yes He Can!

They suggested, as he went via Clearing & RPA last year that we agree to suspend with Uni A, then apply to Uni B direct to see if he can get a place, & only advising Uni A if yes to A & wants to leave B (have to pay if leave now, not if suspend. If we suspend then leave they might make us pay but currently its only for 1 term, if they think we've messed them around they might charge year)

If Uni B say NO to direct app / RPA route then we'd need to apply via UCAS (who suggest we ask Uni if we can apply for more than one course - they might say OK & offer him place on 2 or 3 or they might think he's hopeless/undecided so best to apply for 1st choice only & ask to move across Dept once he has a place)

I don't think DS would cope with considering a 3rd Uni choice.

His choices this summer were big Uni A 30miles away he could commute from home (with pal). Didn't work. Uni too big, commute bad, 'pal' abandoned him. Noisy city. Hated dry course & Uni systems hard to navigate & comms poor.

OR Uni B. Harder to get into & he chose Uni B which they were 'surprised' about.
But IF he gets a 2nd chance - smaller Uni (5K, not 15k students) smaller city, accom avail 500 yds from Uni, very good student support, less rush, starts in 1st yr (other Uni made him start Y2 as College entrant but gave no transistion place)

Will come back here once we've:
a. suspended Uni A
b. asked Uni B if we can apply via RPA
c. any Qu's re UCAS form.

I think it's worth a shot even if DS can't see it atm as he's depressed.
Wish us luck !

I do wish you both luck, OP!

Keep us updated.

If he is feeling down then see if you can help with the admin eg filling out the form to suspend or getting the basics into UCAS so he only has to do his PS and delve into the details of the modules so he can choose between courses.

I work in computing and would say if in doubt go with a general course rather than niche etc as you usually do sufficient modules/final year project in the niche area if you find it your passion and if you hate it you have other options.

@SandyIrving
@poetryandwine

Slight update. Current Uni called me yesterday. Head of Student Support says there 'has been a discussion' & they have agreed to offer Ds a new choice:

He can Suspend his studies. He gets access to Term 1 materials only.
He pays 25% course fees. He can keep his student card & attend societies.
OR
He Withdraws. No access to anything & returns Student Card. They waive fees.
They close down his internal account but then re-admit him internally for 2024 (which would 'take a few weeks with our systems'). If he changes his mind meantime no problem but 'we'd not expect him to look elsewhere if we are making this extra - ordinary offer'. I think they are acknowledging there has been a cock up & I think they are now trying to help but it's not clear if we choose option B if we can still apply elsewhere if they go via UCAS. They say it's all internal so hopefully not? also Ds feels a bit sad he can't keep up with the one society he's tried but 25% fees to keep that option for 6m seems expensive.

I spoke to UCAS who said we can't apply elsewhere if current Uni do an RPA.

Not sure if I'm being dense but not sure what to advise him now.

Gosh even more complications.

If it were me I'd go for the 2nd option and when they've confirmed no fees etc then I'd ask them to hang off on the readmittance as he needs time to think (play the disability card). Use that time to apply to new uni and when he gets an offer from them bin the old one. If you are flush 1st option is okay too as I suspect both original and new unis will have him anyway next year (as he has good grades in the bag).

@SandyIrving
he's been looking at some online Harvard courses to fill his time - they're free, self paced & really appealing. You pay at the end if you want certification of participation. I'm encouraging this as it might re-ignite his love for learning & help him feel more confident in his application course choice.

He could pay for 3 of these 8hrs / wk mini courses with the fees 'saved'.

We are the opposite of flush sadly - I'm a Carer (topped up by Income support): other child has ASD & mutism & only has school provision for 10 hours a week.

(tiny violin!)

I like @SandyIrving ’s suggestion, OP. 2nd option. After they confirm no fees, play for time. I think DS needs to make a fresh start one way or another, and will be less anxious for doing things properly from Day 1.

Now the question us, which uni does he prefer? Is he in a mental space where he can decide? If he wants to change unis, know that he can only play for time for a little while. How fast will the other uni move?

Of course, if DS would be happy enough restarting at this uni everything is easy with Option 2.

@SandyIrving @poetryandwine

He is not sure if he wants to go back anywhere (this has been a huge dent to already very shaky 'confidence'). If so, he thinks probably not this course as the Course leader who is also his Pers Dev Tutor seems very switched off & he hated the 'Moodle' system for handing in work & lack of feedback from lecturers.

He thinks he'd like to try to go back to the other Uni but isn't sure of the course yet & I suspect it might take a month+ (via these mini courses) to work that out.

It's hard to know whether we are better staying as 'Suspended' (UCAS say we can apply elsewhere whilst so) or Withdraw & risk whether they re-enrol him via UCAS or entirely internal (which Stu Support say but I've not had confirmation from Admissions & won't get it as this is an 'extra-ordinary' procedure it seems)
UCAS say if they use an RPA it would prevent applying elsewhere but it would be a £500 gamble to do so. Or if they re-enrol internally it's fine. So hard to know!

I think I will email them to say we'd like to accept their offer to Withdraw & be internally re-enrolled but would prefer the re-enrolment to be at the end of this semester, (given his ASD etc) 'to be sure which year of the course / which course in the Dept he feels would be best'. This is reasonable, & buys us some time.

What do you think of that wording?

ps thanks for staying with me on this x

OP,

How can DS re-enrol from the end of this semester? He will have missed too much work. So I do not understand how you can give that as your preference. But perhaps I am missing something.

@poetryandwine They've offered Withdrawal & re-enrolling for 2024 start.
They said 'it might take a few weeks'. I was suggesting they do that process at end of this term (to give him that time to look around /apply elsewhere).

If it wasn't clear that is helpful to me thank you as I may need to re-draft my email to them x

@poetryandwine I read it as re-enrol at end of this semester but for the next academic year.

I would be inclined to split up the withdrawal and waiver of fees from the re enrollment (so they can't attempt to get the money when he bins them) eg

We'd like to accept your offer to withdraw from the course with waiver of fees.

DS is struggling at the moment so we would really appreciate it if he could have a little time to consider his options for next year to be sure which year of the course /which course he feels would be best. Can we contact you to discuss at the beginning of next semester?

You've enough on your plate with your kids without wasting several hundred pounds. Good on him doing the Harvard Courses.

Sorry xpost

OP,

Once again I think @SandyIrving has a great idea for you. I realise you and she are saying the same thing but she’s provided a good reason. I realise you may also have thought of it

@SandyIrving @poetryandwine

Well, he sent his email as suggested (withdraw, no fees, option of reserved place next year with no UCAS involvement, we will come back to you in late Dec/Jan)
Sent to Course Leader, Student Support & School Office (as advised by SS).
Got an 'out of office for 4 days' from both of first two so phoned School Office for conf. as had been told ESSENTIAL it was in by next day. SO said: 'we arranged for his records to show he left in 1st 4 weeks so no fees due & no official Uni record at all: you'll still get bills for a few weeks but don't worry we'll sort it out. Dont call Finance yet'. I've transcribed that & emailed it back to them for conf. as I don't like getting one version from one dept & one from another (the story the whole way through his short stay there & offputting for next year too frankly).

Oh dear. At least it sounds like you won't be charged anything and be under no obligation to restart with them.

I know this is frustrating, OP.

I know there have been red flags but I don’t think this is one of them. I think it is just a reflection of the pressure everyone is under. It’s difficult, but being patient is your best bet