Are 'all Uni's like this'?

[54isanopendoor]

Ds started Uni this autumn & is about to Suspend his studies sadly.
Many reasons inc at 'our' end (wrong accom, too rushed, not correct course etc)
But also very poor (no) support from Uni (he has ASD/Dyslexia/Clinical Anxiety).

He was on a Tech course but the Uni systems are poor, staff untrained / 'give up' (lecturers saying their own systems just 'dont work, never do, no point trying'.
The course was dry, the equipment old (er) & the Tutorials huge (120, broken down into 4 groups with 4th years leading them). So, move elsewhere is answer?

I'm hoping he will have a quiet year, a bit rest, a bit of travel, some volunteering then try again next Autumn. But he is very depressed about it (inevitably atm)

BUT: Ds is now of the opinion that Uni is just another 'sausage factory' & that the academic interest he wanted & sense of energy (even some 'fun'!) isn't to be found. I'm trying to keep his spirits up that that sort of experience is 'out there'.

Unis are research institutes where extra money is earnt by giving students the opportunity to learn from the staff. They are not schools. They are not there to provide education. They do not cater for children. They are for independent, self organising, self motivated adults.

Some may have limited SEN provision, but a lot of students get so much special consideration at school that it is a shock to reach uni and find they are basically on their own

Which Uni?

so the answer to your question, is probably, yes,

No they're not (I'm an academic, not in tech though). He needs to be really careful choosing his course / uni. Visit the place, get a feel for it. Ask searching questions about available support, teaching contact, who delivers the taught content etc.

There's a few things here.

Course experience varies a lot. Big courses can be very difficult for those needing support or even just students who are a bit shy.

Research based unis may use PhD students for teaching. Unis that are more teaching based are less likely to do this.

Support for ASD/anxiety/ dyslexia will be available but again can vary but at uni, nobody is going to hand it to him. He will have to ask his personal tutor for support and student services.

I think it does sound unfortunate but I'd suggest going to some more open days and ask more questions based on your experience.

"Unis are research institutes where extra money is earnt by giving students the opportunity to learn from the staff."

Many undergrad courses are run at a loss, so this is not true.

"Some may have limited SEN provision, but a lot of students get so much special consideration at school that it is a shock to reach uni and find they are basically on their own"

This is also not true. Disability support at uni is often far superior to what's available in schools. DSA is a way better system than EHCPs etc. Universities, whilst not perfect, are often far more committed to inclusion and accessibility than schools IME.

He was on a Tech course but the Uni systems are poor, staff untrained / 'give up' (lecturers saying their own systems just 'dont work, never do, no point trying'.
The course was dry, the equipment old (er) & the Tutorials huge (120, broken down into 4 groups with 4th years leading them). So, move elsewhere is answer?

This bit will vary wildly - and can even depend on course within same department - that DH experience of being a tech based lecturer.

Means we have to get DS to ask many questions and do a lot of research into course and departments and then match that to location limitations.

But also very poor (no) support from Uni (he has ASD/Dyslexia/Clinical Anxiety).

That usually student support services these days - so don't know how they vary now but my experience of two universities 20 + years ago undergraduate and master and dyslexia help was like night and day - one had nothing but obstruction other really tried. However as PP have said support will be limited and emphasis would be on self study.

Another option is the Open university - OU - and my experience of study with them round work and life was really positive - if a degree is needed to get him on in his career it is another option and can be down round full time work.

@54isanopendoor take this experience as an opportunity to have worked out what your ds needs. Now he has grades in hand he can really drill down into what courses might work for him and what he needs. Was he getting DSA? Did he have a learning plan (or similarly named thing) with the uni disability team?

But also very poor (no) support from Uni (he has ASD/Dyslexia/Clinical Anxiety).

What kind of support does he need? To what extent does it fall within DSA / NHS / uni remit?

The specifics will determine whether the experience would be different elsewhere.

well good, I am glad to hear it. I do think support is likely to be more practical than emotional though, for example I have an ex sixth form student who left his uni course because he wasn't issued with a time out card for anger management- which he expected he would be, even though I had tried to warn him several times that is not how the grown up world works...

Very curious about the university..

But besides that, all i can say is it sounds like your son actually made a mature (and brave) decision. A gap year, even an unintended one, allows for a lot of growing up. And I'm sure he'll be more informed with his next choice. Good luck x

That sounds like he wasn't very well prepared or supported with the transition at all.

DSA is more practical than emotional, and many students in receipt benefit from specialist mentoring, study skills support, assistive tech and much much more.

Some unis are better than others.

Newcastle physics is very good.

Ask around for courses with good disability support.

@icewoman's comments are quite honest. It is a big step change from school to university. You now have students studying, rather than pupils being taught. Disability support services are often overwhelmed and may not have the correct support available immediately and continually. The number of students with mental health and anxiety issues has dramatically increased over the past 15 years, and moving away from home into a new environment can heighten this issues. Some time out of the system and a fresh start may be what is needed. My children thrived at university, but it took some effort and the need to be out of their comfort zone to fully relax and settle in. My nephew has done a degree apprenticeship and blossomed. His experience has been totally different, and more nurturing, plus he's earning and his fees are covered.

thank you so much to everyone who replied.

@icewoman - don't want to fill thread with details but the Uni has been poor.
Ds did an HNC last year at College & so had a DSA report & funding (though didn't actually get much support but that's a different story!) This was all forwarded to Uni at the start of the course but he still 'slipped through the net'.
He isn't expecting 'special treatment / handfeeding like at school' but for the playing field to be levelled so that he can achieve academically as he should.
This hasn't happened & it's clear his Course Leader / PDT is quite disinterested.
His confidence has plummeted so he is now struggling to be assertive. I have permission to liaise on his behalf & I've been stunned by how difficult it is.

@igivein
We attended 2 open days & asked questions. One of the features we liked was that ALL lectures are pre-recorded & available (via Moodle) in advance / after to give students chance to prepare / re-visit the material. There is also an anonymous Question system so that a shy student can ask a Qu either in real time via phone or before / after. This was a big factor in us choosing this Uni.
In reality the lectures are not available (the Course Leader denied we'd ever been told this, bizarrely enough) & the anonymous Qu feature is switched off by Tutors as they 'get too many silly questions'. The internal tech systems don't work well or integrate with each other either apparently. I think it's damaged Ds' confidence. I suggested we go to an Open Day this weekend & the response was 'well, we won't get a true picture of what it's really like, just a hard sell'.

@TripleDaisySummer I am talking to him about the OU now too (but I think he would be lonely doing this route). I am sure there IS better out there but it obviously varies wildly &, even if you ask the 'right' qu's it seems to be a lottery.

@user1846385927482658 you make a good point thank you.
The support he'd need does fall within the remit of DSA so should be available.
This particular Uni talked the talk but didn't walk the walk unfortunately.
I think it could be much better next year as the Student Support person is finally gearing up, but I was very surprised at the attitude of the Course Leader so a change of course (within Dept) might be wise too.

@Hillarious thanks. we will look into Degree Apprenticships too.

I just hope that I can help him get back on track as his confidence has taken SUCH a hit. Clearly struggling on this year (even with a deferral of Xmas exams) would be quite challenging as he has missed much of the first 10 weeks (Scottish timetables) though his Student card finally arrived today. I think a suspension of studies whilst he looks around is best but I'd not recommend this Uni at all (not just our particular experience but what he's told me of others on course too)

Good steer with the OU. My DD did a module in S6 and support was great (personal tutor and also course chat groups). She even went to face to face tutorials.

Could he try out a module of the OU BSc(starting Jan/Feb) to assess.
This would give you time to get support in place as I remember how rushed his previous application was in clearing.

@SandyIrving It was rushed tbf (but then Uni dropped the ball too)
Yes, I think an OU module after Xmas with no pressure might tempt him & help his confidence even if he goes back to this (or any) bricks & mortar Uni 2024.
Dd has chosen the 'wrong' Highers for her change-of-heart-in-S5 & our local College isn't accomodating so it might be OU for her too for next year for access to her new chosen Uni path (if they do Healthcare HNC's? - goes off to check)

I think it's a big step up if they have been to a nurturing secondary school sixth form.

My oldest dd went to a sixth form college where it was sink or swim. There was no support really. Dd was OK and she's at university now doing well. Now my younger dd is at the same college and she's finding the less supportive ethos far more difficult.

He isn't expecting 'special treatment / handfeeding like at school' but for the playing field to be levelled so that he can achieve academically as he should
What obstacles does he feel are currently in the way of him achieving this?

Are his ideas of the steps Uni should be taking realistic?
In terms of "level playing field", what can't he access?

What support does he think he needs. I'm not sure why you were told lectures were available prior to the actual lecture because at most universities they record the actual lecture and put online so they are not available in advance (makes no sense to do them twice). Some universities have a more classroom based teaching model, it's worth looking at that option and often the newer universities have better support and are more flexible though ultimately all students must pass the standards required.

Both my dc have measures in place, one it's simply extra time as she is dyslexic, the other has a variety of measures including reports rather than presentations, weekly sessions with a study support person and flexibility on assignments. She does though have the same lectures and classes.

I can't comment on equipment as that's course related

STEM academic here, OP.

Perhaps I recognise this situation from a previous thread, possibly under a different name?

No, all universities are not like this. STEM courses are operating at a loss but there is no excuse for the sort of systems and equipment you are describing. Some of ours are not what I would wish, because of budget constraints, but they are not like this.

As for Y4 students leading tutorials of 30 students …. words fail me. This is just unacceptable.

The problems with making lectures available online and turning off a promised Q and A session are horrible. They would be deemed unacceptable at my place.

It is no secret that some unis are better than others with SEN students. If you did write before and if memory serves, there were some genuine failures and DS deserved better. OTOH PPs are correct that university is not high school or college and everyone has a lot of growing up to do. DS needs and deserves an appropriate amount of support. It won’t be exactly what he had in college, because he too is growing up.

Overall, your DS had a major piece if bad luck. Most universities are not like what you have described. I hope he will try again. But for things to go better, he should also look to himself and make sure he is doing his part to grow up and take appropriate responsibility. (I am not suggesting he is the problem, but I think it is a good idea for all UGs to do this).