Skipping lectures, sleeping late

[garnetruby]

DD has just started a STEM undergrad course at Oxford. Its about 5 hours away from home and she has settled in well. But a lot of recent conversation is about how she misses lectures for various reasons such as some of the lectures being really boring or there was a more exciting lecture next door on philosophy/architecture/neurology/maths. She seems to be coping ok with the work load (its only week 3) but says she does the minimum to get by. She really enjoys socialising which often means she goes to bed really late- and is sometimes too tired to go to lectures the next morning. But apparently she can get by at tutorials by doing the readings/lab work etc on her own. Its not too hard and there are plenty of resources to help. She doesn't take alcohol (hates the stuff) or any substances. Socialising is just chatting away over tea or coffee or organising events, etc.

I feel quite alarmed at this metamorphosis from diligence at school to being much less so at university. I have never really overseen her study schedule while she was at home as she was so self-motivated. Should I say something? Is this how students usually are? I worry that taking it so easy at the start only promises overwhelm and tears closer to exams.

Hi, OP -

STEM academic here. Your DD reminds me of my own youth.

You’ve asked several great questions.

Sadly this is indeed how many students are, particularly now that at many universities lectures are available online - I don’t know about Oxford. Even the most bewitching lecturers in my Faculty only average 25-30% attendance since we began offering recorded lectures.

Do you get as much out of recorded lectures? Only if the lecture is extremely formal with no breaks for discussion, no planned interaction with the audience and no opportunity for questions. That describes very few modern lectures. Also the moments before and after lecture are great opportunities for getting minor points cleared up and -gasp! - having small human exchanges with the lecturer. The latter are good for students and make it easier for them to seek help when they need it.

So it is 3 weeks in and your DD says she is getting by. Do you think she is being modest, possibly telling you to back off? These are reasonable. Or do you think she has gotten complacent? I actually wonder if she is covering up a sense of insecurity, because Oxford STEM courses aren’t known for generating complacency.

I agree it is unlikely DD will be able to coast much longer, if indeed that is what she is doing now. I don’t see how you can address this effectively. It is a lesson each of us must learn for herself. What you can do, though, is listen to DD’s conversation for subtexts and gently pick up on those to some extent - always remembering that anything she perceives as pushing is likely to backfire. She’ll appreciate an ally, though.

PS In terms of standards for my statistic on lecture attendance, my uni is not COWI but it is in the next tier (Russell Group)

Did she go to the 'more exciting lectures next door'??

Seriously, given so many others would chew off their right arm to study at Oxbridge this sounds rather spoilt and brattish behaviour and I'd be telling her so. Tough love and all that.

It may well backfire. I pretty much thought Oxbridge was renowned for its crippling demands and workload. It's not too hard will change!

Things might have changed, but in my day at Oxford, the important thing was being able to do the problem sheets/write the essay to discuss with your tutor (one per week for each course, three or four courses at a time). The tutor didn't care two hoots whether you had prepped for that by going to lectures, or by working on your own in the library. STEM lectures tended to be a more efficient use of an hour than working from textbooks, humanities were a lot more variable and attendance varied by lecturer.

OP, there will be a useful calibration at the start of each term with a college exam that doesn't count towards degree, just monitors progress (often called 'collections' but it varies).

Bedding in and making friends is the important bit at the start, it increases mental well-being and resilience and having a solid group of friends makes it less likely students will drop out. As the work gets harder and the assessments get closer she’ll likely knuckle down and get more stuck in academically. If her behaviour hasn’t changed by the second half of the academic year I’d be a bit more concerned but right now this sounds like regular student behaviour and it is great that she’s making friends.

What @PhotoDad says is correct. And as such, it sounds as if your DD is managing fine. Students do pop into other "more interesting" lectures and this is part of a well-rounded Oxbridge education. As is not attending lectures. Many students manage to complete their whole degree whilst avoiding lectures. Unlike other university courses, many Oxbridge lectures are not directly linked to course topics or themes.
Also agree with@gavisconismyfriend that a firm mental health standing is very important and will stand her in good stead going forward.

DD graduated from an Oxford STEM degree last year. For her subject, lectures had no bearing on material studied for tutorials. At first DD focussed on the tutorial work because it was more immediate. It required writing a weekly essay and discussing it with a tutor so it was obvious if she wasn't sufficiently prepped. DD quickly realised that she also needed to stay on top of the (often completely unrelated) lecture material, wider reading and lab work because that material would be examined at the start of every term in "collections" and in first year exams (prelims or mods). DD started her degree pre Covid; online lectures didn't exist and DD had a 9am lecture every weekday. She was diligent about attending because she enjoyed learning from renowned experts and she really didn't want the hassle of copying up someone else's notes later when she could be attending sports squad training and social stuff. She also attended a handful of other random lectures - as did her friends.

I agree completely that making friends is as important as figuring out how to manage the workload in the first term. Great advice from @gavisconismyfriend.

This is what I was going to say

Thank you so much everyone. Really appreciate the time and thought taken to share perspectives.

Dd has just graduated from Oxford. She never attended a single lecture, but likewise never dared to miss a single tutorial and rarely missed an essay or worksheet deadline. She was PPE rather than STEM. I imagine your DD's pace will pick up considerably soon.