Linguistics degree without english literature GCSE

[OnceMoreFromTheTop]

Hi,

I wondered if anybody might know whether it's possible to study linguistics at university without studying english literature GCSE?

My son is ASD and is ruthlessly amazing at grammar and syntax and spotting typos. He loves the undergraduate linguistics entrance exam papers. However, he gets overwhlemed by the horror and misery in GCSE English.

He is having an EHCP assessment and I wondered if it would be reasonable to ask to skip English literature and just do English language, and whether that would be okay for doing linguistics at university as joint honours with computer science?

If the answer is "no", then that's fine, but it would be really handy to know.

I have also asked in the SEN forum.

Thanks!

You might have a bit of a battle with school about dropping GCSE Literature as it is part of Progress 8 so generally a compulsory subject for all students. Most schools teach Lit and Lang alongside each other so timetabling him out of Lit but keeping him in Lang might be virtually impossible. You could definitely get him to lay off the Lit revision and focus on Lang though.

In terms of degrees, there’s a new section on UCAS references which asks about mitigating circumstances, so whoever writes his sixth form reference would be able to mention that he is autistic and finds horror and misery difficult (I totally agree with him btw; GCSE set texts are dire) hence lower GCSE lit result, but that he excellent at analysis.

I’d also recommend finding a sixth form that does A-Level Language.

Thank you for mentioning that. I just looked up the details and it turns out that the progress 8 only measures results in either Eng Lit or Eng Lang, so there is no need to do both. It's useful that I found that out now.

It's not really the revision that's the problem. It's having to read the books at all. He just finds them totally soul-sucking.

He had PTSD from early medical treatment and all the books about people having totally miserable lives.

It's just totally counter productive to steep him in misery like that.

It's such a shame about the GCSE Eng Lit curriculum being so grim. It doesn't teach love of reading at all, I don't think.

Dd is applying for this. She doesn’t require lit just English language A level.
Glasgow’s degree looks great. They offer combined degree in computing and linguistics.

I have a phd in linguistics. There’s no need to do Eng lit for GCSE. For A levels maths is good, English language maybe, a language maybe, philosophy?

I would encourage him to look for courses in theoretical linguistics, not applied. Sounds like he might make a great syntactician. If he wants to do some reading and get a sense of the subject, a good start (for a general reader so not requiring prior knowledge) would be Steven Pinker’s The Language Instinct. Happy to suggest other things depending on his interests.

@LenBast
Thank you very much, that is really helpful.

Do you know of any books that are written very unemotionally and just are a technical guide to theoretical linguistics?

I think he would like that.

I wondered if The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language might be good?

I see that there are quite a lot of theoretical linguistics courses. That is good.

Off to bed now but I will come back to this tomorrow.

Thank you vey much. Sorry I hadn't realised it was so late. Just as well you mentioned.

I just learned about cryptography which is apparently different. I wonder if that is a thing for him?

nope I read more about it and I definitely think he likes linguistics better. I have bought a book called The Mother Tongue: English and How It Got That Way
by Bryson, Bill

It’s more complicated than that. If a pupil sits both, their higher grade is doubled for P8, but if they don’t, it isn’t. This means that very few state schools will let a pupil drop Lit (No, I know, it’s immoral. Blame the tories…)

On a more practical level, the subjects are rarely split at gcse. So on a timetable it would just say ‘English’, but in the lesson itself the teacher might be doing lit or Lang, or a mixture of both.

Thanks, yes I see what you mean. Maybe I would be better to look at the lit curriculum and find which texts are suitable for him. I will do that. Thanks.

education is about learning new things though, so even if he doesn't need English literature, it sounds like he personally would benefit from studying it

Honestly a good teacher will be able to teach him English Literature and he will need a certain amount of these skills to do well on the English Language exam which is a heck of a lot more than good spelling and grammar. ds1's (ASC at a special school) actually taught them English Literature first, which definitely did not come naturally to him, so that they could then apply these skills to the English Language exam.

Have you looked at an English Language paper - there is a a lot about how the writer uses language to invoke mood or emotion which was extremely difficult for ds2 (also ASC) who struggles to verbalise his own emotions let alone anyone else's.

Not getting English Language GCSE is a complete pain when it comes to university applications no matter how good your A level results are in other subjects. So really I would try and get support to help your ds tackling this is rather than substituting with a different subject.

I’m sorry. I can tell you’re trying to be proactive and I feel like I’m being the voice of doom, but the Lit texts won’t be chosen by him. The whole class (or year group in some cases) will be taught the same texts, chosen by the teacher or head of department.

You’re right that they’re generally pretty gloomy, but they’re also great stepping stones into societal issues and the sorts of discussions that pupils enjoy (and that help prepare them for the modern world).

I understand your concern, but avoiding GCSE literature seems unlikely. You’d probably be better supporting him with understanding the issues in the text, and helping him focusing his revision on language. A-Level Literature is obviously totally avoidable.

OP, he could read David Crystal perhaps.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Language-Histories/dp/0300170823/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3AXOHCMRUJY8D&keywords=david+crystal+books&qid=1697882675&sprefix=david+cry%2Caps%2C783&sr=8-1

Honestly , some kids that sound like your DS prefer literature, espeiclaly poetry and Shakespeare. They like pulling the grammar and structures apart.

What do they actually do in Linguistics?

Grammar theories, how language develops, why we have language, sociolinguistics, language teaching theories, phonetics (the physical features of pronounciation), phonology (sound systems), psycholinguistics... Basically, how and why language works as it does.

Here is an example of course content for a course that is purely Linguistics.

David Crystal, as above, is a good shout, he is very readable. I read his 'Linguistics' book before choosing my uni course - it's very old now though.

Linguistics + Computer Science/NLP/Data Science of some kind would be a good choice, and would help him to be employable I think.

Just coming back to this. One of the great things about linguistics is that it is incredibly broad- it covers every aspect of language and so there is something for everyone. A typical undergrad degree in theoretical linguistics will cover syntax (essentially, how we form phrase and sentence structures- you will also see this called generative grammar- grammar here means something slightly different from how we usually use the word), morphology (word structures), phonetics (sounds in language), phonology (the patterns of how those sounds are used in language), semantics and pragmatics (meaning, inherent and contextual), sociolinguistics (language and society), psycholinguistics (the psychological processes underlying language use) etc etc.

Not sure if I have understood correctly but is he 14? He has bags of time to be thinking about all this stuff. While you've asked for technical guides, I would really hold back from anything too much like a textbook at this stage, not least because he might be put off if he finds it too hard (one would normally be working through the textbook with a teacher).

The Stephen Pinker book I mention above https://www.amazon.co.uk/Language-Instinct-How-Mind-Creates/dp/014198077X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1697883835&sr=8-4is really great and a proper introduction to syntax (a hard subject) which is also reasonably accessible. Have a look and see whether you think it would be ok for him or whether he might do better with it in a year or two- this is the sort of book an admissions dept would be pleased to see mentioned on a personal statement as, although it's only an introduction, it isn't dumbed down. This one is also very interesting https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stuff-Thought-Language-Window-Nature/dp/0141015470/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1697883893&sr=8-10

The recommendation above for David Crystal is a very good shout- he's another serious linguist who's a great popular communicator. This is a good one https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Language-Works-Meaning-Languages/dp/0141015527/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3R9X3F46ML6V&keywords=david+crystal&qid=1697884067&sprefix=david+crystal%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-3 but all his books are worth reading.

There are a few linguistics titles in the Very Short Introductions series which he might find interesting https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linguistics-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0192801481/ref=d_pd_sim_sccl_3_21/258-5987433-6276548?pd_rd_w=LrmDe&content-id=amzn1.sym.8458106d-76d2-4d9c-ac65-d7c52ca475b7&pf_rd_p=8458106d-76d2-4d9c-ac65-d7c52ca475b7&pf_rd_r=5EQSMXG0A2S4ZYGEX96G&pd_rd_wg=f1tkr&pd_rd_r=8719685e-4a61-4467-8937-332fd8f001bc&pd_rd_i=0192801481&psc=1, or https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sociolinguistics-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0199858616/ref=pd_bxgy_sccl_1/258-5987433-6276548?pd_rd_w=tSCRA&content-id=amzn1.sym.40f919ed-e530-4b1a-8d7e-39de6587208d&pf_rd_p=40f919ed-e530-4b1a-8d7e-39de6587208d&pf_rd_r=QMBKSVJJA05D49KNJJDJ&pd_rd_wg=Ni8jl&pd_rd_r=699b06f1-37c9-4abc-bf33-ffd53b0b8801&pd_rd_i=0199858616&psc=1

Also anything at all which stimulates his interest in language will be good. The Bill Bryson book you mention is a great read and will get him thinking. This puzzle book might be up his street as well https://www.amazon.co.uk/Language-Lovers-Puzzle-Book-perplexities/dp/1783352191/ref=sr_1_4?crid=278HD05PTZW7N&keywords=alex+bellos&qid=1697884458&s=books&sprefix=alex+bellos%2Cstripbooks%2C80&sr=1-4

I would steer him away from any language books that are essentially just someone grumbling about modern language use and how we're all going to hell in a handcart- these can be enjoyable but they're really the opposite of what theoretical linguistics is about, as it focuses on studying language in use rather than laying down rules about how people should use it.

How old is your DS?
You say he doesn’t want to do English Lit for whatever reason and that he may struggle - this is precisely where an EHCP can support him. It sounds very much like you're putting the cart before the horse - setting things in stone at a young age can be detrimental because children often don’t know what they want to study later as they have no experience of that subject if you see what I mean.
My DD loved some subjects that she did for GCSE but loathed the A level in 2 of them and felt she had made a rushed decision.
How much support does he currently get in school, and who has submitted his EHC needs assessment request? Most importantly, what does HE want to do in the future?

@LenBast thank you very much for all these book recommendations, they are great. Thanks also for the explanation of what is in a linguistics degree. That is really helpful and just what was needed.

Thanks to others for comments. I see that we do need to do English lit. I will chat with DS and the school when the EHCP assessment comes along. I reckon we will be able to find a good way forward. No more advice needed on that side of things, thanks.