The NEW Advanced British Standard qualification

[HappySonHappyMum]

Have just read the bluster being reported about this new qualification to replace A levels and T levels in 10 years time. Thought this might be a good forum to discuss it as most of our DCs have just gone through the process of 16-18 education and are probably best placed to contribute to an informed discussion. My first thoughts are - thank god my DCs will be well out of the shit show that is education by then! I will be interested to know where the government are likely to find all the extra teachers needed to staff this major change, how they are going to create a qualification that will suit young people of different learning abilities and how they can announce such a radical change without discussing it with the education community before announcing it. Any thought?

We also don't have huge surpluses of English teachers.

And if my skills are used to teach recalcitrant 17 year olds how to write CVs, I'm outta here. Besides which, that is definitely not a specific skill to English teachers.

I doubt very much the envisioned English qualification matches what employers think they need/ want.

It pretty much sounds like reintroduced ASs without admitting it.

IB is much more expensive to resource than A-levels. And T-levels require 15 hours a week of work experience, I believe, which would be a gigantic ask if mainstreamed. BTECs are being phased out with nothing to replace them.

The number of teachers is dropping faster than the number of kids (peak birth year of 2012 hits secondaries next September).

This is not a plan!

I am increasingly glad that I plan to retire before then!

I've not looked into the new proposals in detail, but it sounds a lot like the Scottish system of highers. Able pupils take five highers in one sitting with maths and English highly recommended.

Maths is already the most popular A-level though and English is 4th or 5th. They're hardly unpopular choices.

Exactly.

Why not just roll out scottish highers to all parts of the UK rather than reinventing the wheel?

With less intense concentration on 3 subjects, will UK undergraduate degrees become 4 years like the ISA or Scotland?

Glad my youngest will be done and dusted by the time this would come along. She is dyslexic. She is far better off focusing on Maths, Physics and Chem which she enjoys and where she will likely achieve 4A*s. She is already literate with an 8 and a 9 in English Lit and English language at GCSE. She has reached s reasonable standard for adult life. She will never be a writer, or a lawyer or enjoy it. Her time is better spent playing to her strengths.

I agree all DC should be equipped with s minimum standard of English and Math. But there is an opportunity cost to doing more for the sake of doing more.

@Margarethe

With less intense concentration on 3 subjects, will UK undergraduate degrees become 4 years like the ISA or Scotland?

God, I hope not. They're already stretched out to cover 3 years and most subjects could easily be done in two if you cut out the waffle, shortened the holidays, and actually did some teaching in term 3 instead of spending the entire term doing exams. There's not really any correlation between length of course and the content taught because, in reality, there's very little teaching going on. (As I say, in "most" subjects - I appreciate that in some subjects, things are very different with lots of, say, lab work or practical work that takes time).

I think the intention is aimed at the ones who are struggling with Maths and English, and to carry on teaching/studying in the basics, i.e. trying to achieve GCSE rather than them doing A levels in Maths/English. So maybe the more able could be doing 5 "A levels", but the less able may be doing 3 A/T levels alongside Maths and English to GCSE level??

Nope. Everyone is to do maths or English. Those who are very able in arts, hums type subjects will have to continue maths. Not just the resitters.

It is true this bears a passing resemblance to the Scottish system, except students can bypass maths and English and certainly don't have to continue them both into their final year if they do all the school years.

Of course Rishi does not want you to notice the parallels with Scotland...

My son has just started T levels. It's no where near 15 hours a week. I think it's 315 hours over the whole 2 year course. I'm not sure when they will start their placements but will be 1 day a week for a couple of blocks.

That does sound more reasonable (although does it depend on the specific course?) but even a day a week would be a huge ask up and down the country if most schools were doing this qualification. We have huge labour shortages -- there aren't enough potential supervisors.

So about 4 hours a week averaged over a 2 year 39 week course.

At the moment 6th formers doing A-level might do a week or two of work experience.

I don't think it's a bad thing - there are continental systems where school and work are much more integrated - but it would require a complete rethink that would affect workplaces as well as schools and would need politicians with actual strategic skills.

Not the kind of people who spunk billions on a bit of a train line and then say "oh whoops".

We don't offer T levels at my place but I do know the barrier to their success has been school's lack of capacity to offer day release type work experience and , in lots of areas of the country, lack of available placements. From what I gather the work experience element has been a shitshow.

Maybe similar, but many years ago, I was approached by our local college to take on an apprentice for a few days a week as part of their course. I readily agreed. But the sheer amount of red tape, form filling, documents needed, and requesting all kinds of workplace policies, far beyond the legal requirements, put me off, and I withdrew as I simply didn't have the time to pander to their needs. I think colleges etc need to be more realistic about their "requirements" if they want more employers to get involved.

@Badbadbunny that will have been the requirement of DfE, not the college. Apprenticeships require a massive amount of paperwork and it definitely does put small employers off. Even worse with the Levy now but ESFA demand these things and in order to be compliant all providers have to do as they stipulate.

@Badbadbunny - I don't think they're the colleges' requirements. They're Ofsted's. If the colleges don't put them in place and have all the paperwork they'll get inadequate ratings and be put into special measures. I think you're right that many T-Level and apprenticeship schemes aren't feasible for small or medium-sized businesses because of the regulatory requirements, and they are never likely to succeed.

Eh what?

The Tories don't stand a cats chance in hell of being elected, so this policy will never come to anything, why are you even thinking about it?

Worth discussing the T levels though - especially as it's also been announced that BTEC will end. Students need an alternative to A-level.