Maths & Physics Challenges - really??

[happyhippiehippo]

How important are they, I mean really?

DC is in Y12 and teachers are sending out invites for these types of challenges. It's optional but I'm trying to encourage DC to have a go (once HW etc is done)

DC claims it's pointless as it doesn't help with the learning towards the A-levels - is this really true?

I do of course realise that the challenges regardless are exactly the sort of super curricular activities that are useful in a PS, but I'd like to know whether doing the practice papers are a complete waste of time in terms of furthering the knowledge specific to the A-levels DC is doing (Maths/Physics being two of the A-levels taken)?

Thank you!

Not everything in life has to be focused on Alevel learning but the answer is they won’t help the syllabus but they will help the student think and analyse better and most importantly, they are fun! My DC loved doing them much more than A level work!

My DS does them for fun but if your DC doesn’t enjoy them then no point

Does DC want to study physics / maths or degree based on these subjects at uni? If so I'd say yes though A levels are impo so if struggling to keep up / get grades they desire then stick to core work.

No A-level maths is needed for the Maths challenge. Taking maths challenges will be very useful for MAT, and TMUA tests.

Not needed for the curriculum, but good practice for thinking creatively in maths and worth doing if he thinks he might do anything even vaguely mathsy at uni (DS has mentioned his various maths challenges on his personal statement, applying for a science subject). Also they’re fun and designed to get students thinking in new ways, to see maths as more than just a school subject where you replicate what you’ve been shown by the teacher. Well worth it.

@alexisccd Yes wanting to study Physics or Engineering; not really over stretched tbh. Not yet anyway, but not sure they're doing the 'extra' work that is required for A-level above/beyond HW/tests given at school
@User11010866 That's really good to know, thanks

I'm not sure how directly helpful these challenges are for A-level studies; it's using different skills. They are mostly for fun.

I would hope that not much weight is placed on them when reading personal statements, as not every applicant is able to access UKMT or Olympiads. DS asked to enter the Physics Olympiad but his school wouldn't facilitate it, so he entered the Senior Physics Challenge independently.

He found Isaac Physics (free and accessible to everyone) very helpful preparation for the problem solving skills he had to demonstrate in the NSAA and Cambridge interviews.

Maths and physics are incredibly important to us all, in everyday life. Most people just don’t understand that.

I always said to my DC that Y12 is time to explore what you like and don't like. The pace of Y13 and all the pressures of UCAS means it is more difficult to do so then.

If Maths and Physics competitions don't appeal, and they didn't to my DC, how about your DS investigates the courses run by the Engineering Development Trust (link below)?

One of my DC attended both online and in-person EDT programmes and found those really useful in whittling down subjects to study at uni and, indeed, whether uni was the right next step.
https://www.etrust.org.uk/edt-programmes

My DC quite enjoyed doing the maths challenges - good problem solving practice, and that is one thing your DS will need (and enjoy) if he’s considering an engineering degree.

I would hope that not much weight is placed on them when reading personal statements, as not every applicant is able to access UKMT or Olympiads.

Unis are looking for evidence of an interest beyond the A level curriculum. That could be eg UKMT or it could be something else- lots of options.

Engineers need to be able to think beyond the bare minimum to get a qualification - after all, the entire discipline is about the practical application of knowledge in order to identify and present solutions to problems. The absolute joy in these subjects is when you actually get to use them in the wild and you see the results of your knowledge, ideas, teamwork, communication, etc, etc, etc.

It's a very unhelpful and restrictive attitude to decide that because it isn't going to be on an exam paper in the next two years that something has no value.

Interesting that PPs are assuming this is a boy, though. Is that because Engineering is a 'boy's' career choice or because the inflexibility of thought/lack of appreciation is expected to be a male trait?

I just realised that I called OP’s DC a DS - I didn’t reread the OP before I posted and followed on from the previous poster.

So no I don’t think engineering is for males (I’m a female engineer) nor do I think inflexibility of thought/lack of appreciation is a male trait!

Thanks for your helpful advice.

DD is doing physics at uni and whereas I think she was entered into the maths challenge at secondary level (not sure that she did at 6th form age) she certainly didn't place much importance on it. She's doing well on the course.

PPs who pointed out that the Challenges and other supracurricular activities will develop creative thinking have absolutely got the right idea. This will def help with MAT and TMUA. The applicants who require these exams are amongst the best at Maths. Knowing that the exams do not require terribly advanced knowledge, many get a bit complacent until, too late, they start looking at past papers. And as the exams are about creativity, past papers are no sort of template in the way that past A level papers are. My School has a number of wonderful students who did not learn this lesson in time.

Also these activities help DC figure out what they like!

Having said all of this, DH has had a wonderful career gaining Maths professorship in the upper levels of the Russell Group and at the same level in America from a young age, and found the idea of Maths competitions really distasteful. It didn’t hurt his Oxbridge application any.

<<Full disclosure ...Maths teacher here so probably a bit biased>>

I am used to getting exactly this type of question from my very focused students who are generally aiming for A level exam success as their end game, but I always tell them to have a go. Pushing out of their comfort zone in a very low stakes environment can only help moving forward.

Whilst not directly applicable to A level, the maths challenge does help build problem solving skills and it provides experience of being stuck and figuring things out (which very bright students don't often get until they sit STEP or TMUA type exams).

Also fwiw the last question on this year's Edexcel gcse non-calculator paper was very similar to a maths challenge question as it used exact trig and geometrical properties of a polygon, so students who had had a go at the maths challenge would have actually found the expertise useful in their exam!

PS I am a STEM academic. I meant that we have a number students who either did not get offers from COWI or who did not make their offers. MAT and TMUA play a big part in the first scenario and STEP in the second