PhD dilemma!!!

[soappyblue]

I have neurological problems I.e my memory, understanding is affected. Obviously the viva is a face to face conversation type exam. I will have some exceptions to my examination and these are going to be agreed by the postgraduate team. I am due to submit my thesis this month and my supervisor has said that I will probably get a revise and resubmit when I do the Viva and that my work isn’t to the standard it could have been because of my health problem, she has suggested changing to an MPhil. Should the university be accommodating of my disability? I believe, it is some sort of discrimination that because my health is affected I should opt for a lower degree. I had a stroke in December and since then my cognitive ability has really been affected. I was fine prior to this

Does this not mean you need longer to submit rather than risk the dreaded revise and submit? Can you take longer to get it to a standard where supervisor thinks you will get corrections?

Can you not delay? I wouldn’t want to go through with a viva if my supervisor wasn’t confident.

You could try asking for extra time, or for any other accommodations that might help you.

Ultimately though, in order to be awarded a PhD then the work you submit has to be up to standard for a PhD.

The minimum standard is the minimum standard, surely; accommodations are made to facilitate you reaching the standard when that is harder for you on account of your disability. But if you are not able to reach the standard even with accommodations, then it would be unfair to give you the qualification anyway, just because you have been unfortunate enough to become unwell, very upsetting though that is, I’m sure.

I think it also depends on whether you need the PhD for your career or are doing it for interest. Completing and submitting is very hard even for people without health problems, and if you are well below the needed level an MPhil is a respectable qualification which most people won’t distinguish from a PhD anyway. It still represents a significant achievement, and it would save you a lot of stress to go down this route. If you really need the PhD qualification or would be bitterly disappointed, then you could discuss the options further, but the people I know who have had to revise and resubmit have found it a joyless and painful process. If you have a good relationship with your supervisor, their advice will be helpful. Good luck!

There really should be disability services established at your university and someone there who can advise you on this and help you through the process. Good luck, I hope it works out okay, it sounds pretty stressful.

Can you ask for more time?

Are you getting any support via DSA?

I am getting support from DSA. Spoke to my supervisor just a while ago and she said she doesn't know what outcome I will get from my viva. And that it could be minor corrections, major etc it just depends on the examiner

I think you need to talk to sup's again as that all sounds really muddled (might get R&R, might get minor or major, switch to MPhil).

I agree that you need to talk to your supervisor again, and to the disability office.

IME university disability offices can be wonderful, but often they're not very familiar with dealing with PhD students. I'm dyslexic, and it only became apparent right at the end of my PhD that this was going to affect the way I presented my thesis, and to a degree that was a real problem. I had a real problem getting people to understand that disability discrimination rules still apply with PhD students - at first, it was as if it didn't compute. So I can relate to you worrying that no one seems to have jumped up and sorted out what you ought to be getting as reasonable accommodations. They may well need pushing.

I can't see how extra time could be helpful in a viva - never come across a time limit on a viva personally.

I can't see how extra time could be helpful in a viva - never come across a time limit on a viva personally.

Extra time before submission I meant, not for the viva! OP hasn't submitted yet so more time might be useful to act on sup's recommendations/edits etc. Engaging a proofreader/editor might be considered a reasonable adjustment, for example.

How experienced is your supervisor? A good one should be able to spot major flaws. Do you have panel members that agreed on your progression each year? Did they have concerns? Has an examiner been picked? When I did mine I was warned off recommending someone who was notoriously harsh. You should have a say in possible externals.

If you are not ready to submit, much better to take longer. Most people get revisions, but examiners give guidance on what needs fixed.

Oh, I follow!

An extension might be a good idea, if the OP wants one.

It does sound a tricky situation. IMO reasonable adjustments for PhD students can often need to be much more fine-tuned than for undergrads.

There's a nice bit in this vlog from the wonderful Tara Brabazon about declaring medical etc needs (about 15 minutes in but worth watching the whole thing):

Vivas can be unpredictable. Talk to the dept graduate tutor about the process. There should be an independent chair in your viva to make sure the questions are fair and you should be able to take short breaks in the viva. But if the PhD text itself is not up to standard, the examiners will ask for more work.

Also, more the thread to academic common room to get comments from university people

How do I move the thread? Thank you

Report to MNHQ and ask them to move it.

I'm really sorry to hear about your health problems, well done for getting to this stage even while dealing with them!

That said, if I were you and my supervisor had said my thesis wasn't in good enough shape to pass the viva, I would take an extension and spend that time getting it in shape.

Did she say that the issue was with the standard of the writing, or the standard of the content? As in, would more experiments (if you're doing that type of PhD) be of benefit?

The viva is stressful enough, if your thesis itself isn't in good shape they will press you even harder. I would absolutely not submit yet and would continue working to improve it. Good luck to you OP.

When you talk to your supervisor you need to distinguish between issues with the written thesis submitted and issues for the viva. You should have had yearly reviews with at least one other senior academic to assess progression. I would suggest you request a further meeting to discuss the quality of your written work - whether an extension before formal submission would be productive. Otherwise, if your thesis is at PhD standard, then issues with the viva need to be addressed. For that, there should be adjustment for your disability. It might be for example that the main questions regarding your thesis could be submitted to you a few days before so you can have written notes to aid factual recall during the viva. Normally the chair is there to ensure that protocol is followed and your supervisor should have course contact the selected chair to make them aware.

Thanks everyone. I spoke to my supervisor and she doesn't think an extension may entirely be helpful and change the result of my viva. She suggests that I do the viva and that I could just end up with minor/major corrections. She has changed her words after my disability advisor contacted her. Nonetheless, I have 3 weeks to brush up my thesis. In the first two years when I was assessed the examiners were very happy with my work and found it interesting. I defended my work very well. I think her main worry is that, my cognitive abilities have stopped me from being able to analyse my findings to a reasonable extent. And also that a Viva consists of you defending your work and obviously I will be struggling to do this as I am struggling to have a proper conversation

But what does she/the disability centre suggest would be a reasonable accommodation for your disability?

It worries me that she's acknowledging that you face this problem, but seems to think you can just try the viva anyway, with nothing in place to support you?

Is your disability advisor someone external to the uni?

I'm also a disabled PhD student with an imminent viva and what you're describing just doesn't sound right to me at all.

The fact that your DoS is unable to decide whether it needs minor or major corrections is quite concerning. They should already have appointed examiners by this stage so should know who you're going to have to deal with.

I wouldn't enter a viva or submit without my DoS confidently backing me.

Have you had the max amount of interruptions you're allowed? Technically you could ask your DoS to go hard on the feedback, take (for example) 4 months of interruption and work on it then come back.

You should be entitled to thinking time, notes, post it tabs etc in the viva, really make sure they understand the parameters of your illness; take an advocate from DSA with you if you into the viva if you think it would be beneficial to have someone clock watch/make sure they give you time to process.

@Scampuss what help have you been given? My disability advisor is internal

The postgraduate team are meeting next week to decide a reasonable adjustment plan for my viva so I'll wait to see what adjustments they are going to offer