Tell me about Durham

[Durhamm]

DD has Durham on her list of potential unis but she has never been, can't make the open day and it's a long way for us to visit.

She is looking at one of the joint hons degrees via nat sci.

As far as I can see, lots of people like it for the college system and the formals, but DD isn't bothered one way or the other about those. So what else is good / bad about Durham? A family member went there and didn't have a great experience but we'd like a second opinion and I know there are many Durhamites here.

She wants self catering accommodation, great teaching, to be challenged academically, a diverse and interesting bunch of people to meet, lots of fun things to do when not studying. She is not particularly into team sports, but likes music, going to gigs, cycling, green spaces. Space generally would be good - she found Bristol a bit crowded and much preferred the vibe of the campuses at Birmingham and Nottingham.

Please tell me everything you know, good or bad! Does Durham have lots of other positives apart from the college system, living in a castle and the formals?

I'm currently doing a postgraduate degree at Durham.

The teaching is good. There is good support and monitoring for staff. The programmes are well-designed (at least within my area of expertise).

Library provision is absolutely awful, at least for my subject, by far the worst uni I've studied at. We don't even have a faculty library, only the main university library and small college collections. I think it would be adequate for undergraduate level. Online subscriptions to journals etc are ok; actual holdings of physical books is lamentable. There is plenty of workspace of different types available in the library, and elsewhere.

There are a lot of things offered to help students academically: seminars and classes and such which cover IT skills, essay writing and so on. Literally hundreds of them on all sorts of topics.

There is a cliquey, Rah feel to a lot of undergraduate areas (much less so at postgrad). Also, depending on the subject, a very large number of Chinese students. A lot of unis rely on international students to bring in the cash, but in Durham this seems to be very specifically concentrated on Chinese students. Not a problem per se but they don't always integrate with the rest of the student body so the place can feel even smaller than it already is because the pool of people you mix with is reduced.

IMO it is dire for shops and places to eat, but I'm used to much bigger cities so I'm probably being unfair. It has a reasonable selection for the size of town it is, but it is a very small city.

I have been there as both a student and a non-student. I don't notice a big town-gown divide. There are noticeably fewer students working part-time in local businesses compared to other university towns.

The chaplaincy provision is good for major religious faiths, excellent for some; I don't know what it's like for smaller groups. Pastoral support generally is very good.

It's a beautiful city to walk around, and if you drive then there are lots of fantastic natural places to visit within easy distance. I wouldn't live there without a car, but I need green space in my life. If I were 18 years old and couldn't afford to keep a car, it's not a place I would choose to live. Other people manage fine on public transport! The trains to Newcastle and York are good and quick (especially Newcastle, which is very close). Local buses are infrequent and most stop running early in the evening. They're fine for the city itself, but not if you're out in one of the surrounding villages.

Interestingly there’s an article in the Times this weekend saying how residents in Durham are suffering because of students. Local residents have started to object to HMO applications and landlords profiteering from student housing come in for particular criticism.

4,500 more undergrads at Durham as compared with the 14/15 figure. More than say Newcastle uni has added.

Is that article in today's ST, or from the Times yesterday?

My DS is there at a hill college and so far has had a very positive experience. He is very happy on his course, loves Durham, enjoys taking part in sports at College level, seems to have a fantastic and varied social life. The Collegiate system seems to work very well and he has made many friends in Durham from all walks of life from all over the UK and some non UK. I would also add he is from a working class background in the north and he hasn’t felt intimidated by anyone.

The only negative is the mad scramble for housing in second and third year.

I went to Durham and live in County Durham now so visit the city regularly.
I liked it. The college system gives a good sense of community. It's a very small city and the kind of place that you'll bump into people you know a lot as you walk around it.
The downsides are it's a very small city! It can feel claustrophobic at times.
Lots of walking around between colleges and different Uni buildings so something to bear in mind. I enjoyed that but not everyone would.

My cousin went to Durham uni about 16years ago to do maths, she moved from London. She absolutely loved it, including location and education.

Saturday’s edition @boys3

Also, depending on the subject, a very large number of Chinese students. A lot of unis rely on international students to bring in the cash, but in Durham this seems to be very specifically concentrated on Chinese students. Not a problem per se but they don't always integrate with the rest of the student body

My son says the same. Probably some teenage exaggeration at play but he said they never speak in seminars or tutorials and they stay very much as a separate group.

Thanks @LaaDeeDa321

Interesting article. Not sure Bristol, population not far off 500,000 would necessarily be seen as a small city in UK terms, but once beyond the odd title of the article a lot of the focus was on Durham. Small place, quite rapid growth in student numbers; housing pressures result.

Had the article compared it with somewhere like Exeter that might have been more relevant. Exeter (another provincial town, sorry city) is bigger than Durham, nearer to 130,000 people; and has expanded its student numbers to a greater extent, almost 8,000 extra undergrads added since 14/15. The linked article below is a couple of years old now, but has similar common themes.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/Housing%20Publications/Dispatches%20from%20the%20front%20lines%20of%20the%20housing%20crisis%20(2%20Exeter).pdf

We went to Durham on Friday. Inner city state school educated DS found it OK, though it attractive, he likes the collegiate system, thought too may of the colleges are catered as he prefers self-catered and these seem to be all those furthest from the city centre. Also some of the rooms seemed very small and pokey. I was told around £125 a week for year 2 accommodation and that you can go back into halls for years 2 and 3 if you want to, Didn't like the inner city old college we visited, It will probably make the final 5 but Oxford, Edinburgh and Lancaster all are preferred by him. He liked the space and the green of the hillside campus and colleges. My DD is at Newcastle which she loves. @Durhamm does Lancaster do your DDs course? Their degrees seem very flexible and it's a beautiful green campus, smallish city but it felt more of a city in it's own right than Durham.

Anecdata follows...

I was chatting to a current year 13 (sociology) student today, very able, who visited Durham at the weekend, has been to Bath and Sheffield too.

I asked her how she found each of the places. She voluntarily offered how out of her comfort zone she felt at Durham. Her words : she had 'never encountered so many very posh people in one place at the same time'. She said she found this not in sociology but in the combined social sciences talk where there were people also thinking about PPE. Interestingly, she said it was 'oh my God, the mums!' (see upthread?) so it seems the youngsters aren't necessarily the intimidating ones but their parents. I didn't know anyone when I went as a parent to Open Days (apart from meeting a student there once) but she said lots of the parents knew each other, took over the space, asked lots of questions in an overbearing fashion and then crowded out the area for snacks and drinks (including queue jumping!). She is a bright girl from a middle class, southerish area. She has decided Durham may well not be for her - although there were other reasons, it was mainly a sense of belonging and how far away it is. It seems the distance factors in less for the very affluent (trains are expensive) or Londoners who can get out of London via main train routes perhaps more easily.

Sheffield : she felt much more welcomed, staff, students, everyone was friendlier and , interestingly, 'more inspiring'. She felt the prospective students were more anxious like her and less self assured . At Sheffield, they sent the parents away for the Q and A sessions. Other unis could do this, I think, having been in a few myself! She said she felt the students at Sheffield were applying for the actual course and seemed more interested in study, and in the other places, they were applying for the reputation and the other things such as sport.

Re Bath : she has never seen so many people in one small area in rugby kits! Including prospective students, apparently. She isn't sporty and , again, she felt maybe the only reason to go there is sport. Bath has an excellent rep for social sciences so if they didn't sell this to her, they need to work harder on it! She is going to Loughborough this weekend and expects to see more people in sports kits again!

Being from a very very flat county it seems hills have put her off Durham and Bath!

Thanks @mushroom3 yes, Lancaster nat sci is on the list. Still a long way for us but the flexibility of the course looks good. It's a bit more sciencey than the Durham course she was looking at (2/3 compared to 50:50) and she would have to do psychology, not sure how she feels about that. But I know a couple of people with DC at Lancaster and they are very positive about it. Funnily enough it's where our unhappy ex Durham relative wishes she had gone, it was her insurance.

Love the idea of people turning up to the Bath open day in rugby kit 😂

@mushroom3 Lancaster is lovely and I was very impressed by the campus when we looked round in 2019. It was DS’s second choice and a couple of his friends are there. It used to be lonely up there on that hill, but they’ve worked so hard on student mental health over the last 15 years or so I don’t think it’s any more of an issue than anywhere else now.

I am very sceptical of the accomodation promise for yr 2 and 3 from Durham. I love the Uni, find a few of the comments on this thread a bit harsh and would happily move to live in the County Durham area myself, but unless they have drastically cut student intake numbers for next year then I doubt that promise is true. The accomodation situation is pretty bad and Colleges will just turn their backs on returning students after letting them know very late that they haven’t got a space. This is different for students with a disability, however, where it is guaranteed.

Keep the stories coming about Durham. I think we might have to wait until the spring to get up there.

We're off to the Sheffield Open Day at half-term. DD did some virtual work experience with Engineering Development Trust and was sufficiently impressed by one of their Uni tours that she added it to our list. (You have to pay for their courses, but they certainly helped inspire DD to look at sciences and narrow down her A level options).

[I realise that there are huge chunks of England I have never visited so I am keen to look around too].

Upthread somebody mentioned Bath Uni and so many kids in rugby kit. I'm not sure whether it was a condition of planning permission years back but the local schools make heavy use of Bath Unis facilities (especially swimming, tennis, hockey, netball, athletics). There are 3 private schools within a mile so I expect a lot were on their way to/from school fixtures (picking up/dropping off a sibling).

Back for another quick Durham qn: not that I think she knows, but are you able to specify 'catered/non-catered' when selecting a college?

Yes, you make a list of Colleges you prefer. There are reallocations every year though, so it’s not absolutely guaranteed that you will get your preferences.

No, the Bath people in kit were definitely students who were showing them round and ambassadors and prospective students sat in sociology talks!!

Bath campus is lovely, but it’s on top of an enormous hill. Bath is a British Swimming performance centre and has a 50m pool and a very impressive gym.

Durham is a small place no denying. But 15 minutes on the train takes you directly into Newcastle city centre. Plenty of entertainment there. Personally would think Durham would offer best of both worlds.

@mushroom3 I don't think you've been given very accurate info on Y2/3 accommodation. I think the cheapest for this year is approx £160/week inc bills, in less favoured areas but still in walking distance. It may be cheaper if you are prepared to go outside the city and bus in. The uni has expanded so much it is very rare to get accommodation back in college in Y2/3 unless you have a medical reason, or perhaps returning from a year abroad. Realistically students won't find out if they have been successful in getting a college room until way after Christmas, and by then most people have already organised their private houses so there is a risk they are scrabbling around relatively late in the day, or with only higher priced options left.

Definitely not the best of both worlds @CallumDansTransitVan The last train from Newcastle is about midnight. That’s no good if you are a student. The relative of mine who went to Durham barely went to Newcastle.

I think the cheapest for this year is approx £160/week inc bills, in less favoured areas but still in walking distance.

You're right. In the 'second release' houses in the Viaduct were £200 plus per room per week and £210 plus for Whinney Hill. Far end of Gilesgate near the retail park was £180. Think they were slightly cheaper earlier and later if you held your nerve.

My son is quite easy-going but found the queuing from 2am set up quite stressful. Although I gather houses became available again later in the year.

Impressive yield if you're a landlord though, you'd get over £50k a year on a £450k house near the science site,

@mushroom3 we went to Lancaster in July and were very disappointed. On paper the course looked so good, but it sounded very wishy washy once we were there. The Nat Sci lead acted like he'd never seen a PowerPoint before, let alone knew the content of it, and didn't seem to have the answers to any questions. The labs weren't very impressive and a lot of it seemed old and worn out.

Am I right in thinking that Durham's private school intake has gone up to almost 40%? I saw an article quoting 39.1 but haven't seen the actual Times info.

Yes. A marginal increase on the figure for the previous year.

most of the unis with the really higher figs have seen a move the other way.