Anyone with a DC at a Uni in the EU?

[dylexicdementor11]

We’re years away from uni applications but I’ve been looking into universities in the EU.
The lower costs and undergrad course taught in English are appealing! I have my eyes on the Netherlands and Noway.

If you have DC at EU universities how are they getting on? Any words of wisdom?

I wouldn't interpret it as hostility towards English speaking students. Unlike the UK (which, as you well know working in higher ed) which charges up to triple the 'home' fee for international students European public universities don't see them as cash cows. Consequently the difference in fees (when there is any) is quite small, generally speaking.
Universities have a limited number of places so they have to ration them somehow, while maintaining appropriate teaching standards. I'd rather they do it via higher entry languages (e.g language), compared to whacking the fees up. If students from places like China can learn English to come study in the U.K... why can't English speakers learn the language of the country they want to study in?

There are 6-month 'prep' courses you can take to prepare you for a degree in different languages, once you're immersed in the environment it's amazing how quickly you absorb the language.

Btw @mushroom3 I have noticed that in European universities entry requirements are one thing, but completing the course is another. They let people in with lower grades, but there are very tough weeder exams that as you said trims the cohort down. There's little 'pastoral care' in the sense that the onus is on you to meet the academic requirements, rather than being handheld to complete the degree. People dropping out isn't seen as a failure on the part of the university as it's seen here, in fact it's expected!

The requirements also vary the university of Bologna computer science for example every undergraduate student has a thesis with an oral defence, this was about 6 years ago. This isn't common in the UK presentations yes but vivas are usually reserved for PhD's in the field.

I think you need to look very carefully at several things:

• teaching style and quality - most EU universities do not spoon feed and Molly code students. Big classes and very little small group teaching is far more common in mainland Europe

*ditto for assessment practices. Big public exams are the norm

*language. You can find some courses taught in English but the rest of that student’s life will need to be in another language

• afterwards. No networks or “milk round” in the UK.

• very little of the “student life” stuff - clubs, societies, sports.

• most students live at home or in flats and house shares. Not much of a collegial or campus life.

It can look cheaper, but be careful of making false economies.

All uni undergraduate courses in Italy have as their final "exam" a discussion/presentation of their thesis @JaneIntheBox It's the moment that coincides with their actual "graduation". They sit for a board from their department and everyone goes to watch their discussion, then the head of the board announces their final mark.

Very unusual these days for people graduating NOT to graduate with top marks as well, which I always find odd. I've lost count over the years how many of my students have graduated but I don't know anyone who didn't get 110. (max mark)

Also quite unusual for exams to be written here. Once you're in, almost all are oral.

That makes sense. I was told that by an Italian colleague who went to university in his home country, but I wasn't sure if it was still the case! Things might have changed.
I have quite an interest in all this not for DC (that's a long time away!) but for myself. Although my interest would be for Master's courses how their undergraduate system works feeds into that in terms of expectations.

For fee purposes, are EU citizenship and EU residency the same? I looked into courses in Switzerland and Ireland, and was under the impression that being an EU citizen didn't qualify for EU fees, only having been a long term EU resident. My impression was that anyone having been at school in the UK with both parents residing in the UK had to pay international fees, whatever their passport? Hoping to be wrong!

They are not the same. I can’t speak for Switzerland, but you need to be residing for 3 out of 5 years in a EU country to qualify for home fees. A UK resident qualifies for EEA status for Ireland, also benefitting from Irish Govt fees contribution reducing to student contribution of circa €3k.

i believe each country citizenship will vary in its qualification, Ireland’s being either by living something like 5 years straight (can’t remember) or by ancestry to apply.

Writing from memory of a few years back so apologies if things have moved on for general EU.

My impression was that anyone having been at school in the UK with both parents residing in the UK had to pay international fees, whatever their passport? Hoping to be wrong!

Happy to say you are wrong here as DD is in her second year of Irish studies. We all live in UK and she qualifies for home fees :)

In the uk it's complicated and someone with a uk passport doesn't necessarily get home fees. For Netherlands if you have citizenship you qualify for home fees and government support. From what I understand, the Dutch government will also give grants to Dutch students who are doing degrees in other countries.

channel.royalcast.com/duo/#!/duo/20230316_1

This is helpful. Subtitles in English.

Where is she studying? We looked at Trinity College Dublin and were told by admission that people living in and having completed their post primary schooling in England, whatever their passport, had to pay international fees of over 21k. Home/EU fees were over 5k. I contacted ETH Zurich again and luckily they confirmed that while they would be counted as international students, at least the fees are the same for home and international students.(about 2000 Euros/year, but including public transport and access to sport facilities).

Glad they have subtitles! I can read Dutch pretty fluently, but I can't understand spoken Dutch or speak it. How quickly did your dc pick up Dutch? Do they feel part of the student community? I'm not a native English speaker but went to study in the UK for fee reasons - it's always been easier to get full maintenance scholarships abroad than in one's own country - but while I enjoyed it, I always felt a bit left out (e.g. I was fine chatting 1:1, but keeping up in a loud pub with a group of people chatting across each other in different accents was impossible or at least very tiring).

Time will tell, they've not been accepted yet 🙂

Hello @NellyBarney, who ever you’ve spoken with has given you incorrect info, DD is at TCD and does not pay international fees. Also being EEA the Irish Govt fees reduce it further, but I don’t know if fees have increased slightly since 2023 intake.

I will try and hunt out the part on the website to give you assurance this afternoon.

Irish students also benefit from being charged home fees if studying in the UK.

@ealingwestmum oh thank you for the info!!!

https://www.tcd.ie/study/undergraduate/fee-finances/index.php

this page should have the detail, last year Irish Govt rebated €1k covid disruption, extended to EEA students. So I’m total we paid around €2k for tuition.

DM me if you need any further info.

And apologies for clumsy attachments, not good on phone when on the move :)

Correction sept 2022 entry here. Last comment NellyBarney so not to spam this thread with all things Ireland, not sure what stage your DC is at, but if sitting A levels, 4 is needed for most courses to convert to CAO points competitive to Irish applicants. Even better if they have maths/further maths as it adds 25 points. EPQ or AS level adds a little but not enough.

DD is a humanities student managing 577 points with an AS, but even then the lowest points on her languages course was 550 so the entry point is high. The STEM courses are higher.

Good luck with researching with your DC on options!

@JaneIntheBox I'm not an expert but you need to bear in mind that in Italy degrees are often spoken about as 'initial' degrees (il triennale) and then "specialisation" which is inevitably another 2 years. Almost everyone does both, although it's not compulsory.

I still don't understand half of it tbh- I do remember when telling my SIL I graduated at 22 (4 year course) she was "ah so you only did the mini degree" (triennale) 😳 which is a bit looked down on.

Yes, I have heard almost everyone does a Master's too.
http://attiministeriali.miur.it/media/211300/the_italian_university_system.pdf

The European job market certainly values Master's but it depends on fields. My undergraduate had European exchange students, joint events with universities like Bocconi but the career-oriented people choose to apply for high finance jobs without bothering to carry on to the Master's.

For my current field (software engineering) there's such a shortage that even Germany, a stickler for academic qualifications is allowing in people with an 'academic degree'.