DC changing UCAS from Compsci to ancient history

[bamboowarrior]

Summer has led to a rethink and DC now planning on applying for ancient history as this is their passion!
A levels are maths further maths, compsci and Classical Civilisation - predicted A*s - do you forsee any problems??

They can talk about their passion for the subject in personal statement.

Loving the look of Liverpool, Birmingham, Durham courses at the moment..

Any thoughts welcome as it's all a sudden change!

I I know someone who did Ancient History at Durham and then a Masters to qualify as an archivist and has a brilliant job at a well known public school keeping the archive and doing publicity with the alumni to raise money. Durham is college based and there is a town/ gown thing there.

Thankyou

Bump!

One of DDs’ mates does Classics at Exeter with Latin, maths and chemistry A-levels. She got offers from all the unis she applied to, so I don’t think the slightly unusual subject combo was ever an issue!

Ancient history also a lot less competitive to get into uni than computing, so that could be a plus too.

Agree that the new course would be be significantly less competitive to get onto with lower grades required.

My DS did 2 sciences and maths A level. Signed up for an engineering degree. Dropped out at end of Yr 1 as he decided it wasn't for him. Took a year out before reappling to do History at 3 other Unis. Got unconditional offers even without History A level.

Similar to PP, DS did all STEM A levels, a year of a STEM degree and has now switched to Archaeology. I think quite a few DC get swept up into STEM and only realise later that it's not right for them.

I also know someone who did all STEM A levels and started a science degree but swapped to do history of art.

I did classical civilisations at uni and had A levels in Biology, Geography, classics and AS maths. There weren’t a lot of us on that course with any STEM subjects that’s true.

I had picked the A Levels with a psychology degree in mind.

@bamboowarrior Is your DS interested in learning a Classical language from scratch? If so, he could look at Oxford Classics II course or the 4 year Classics course at Cambridge.
My DD is reading Classics and has friends with Maths and FM reading Classics- so no, your DS’ A levels will not be a problem.
Waves @singingstones ! I was going to mention your DS’ course which looks fabulous and something the OP’s DS could look at?

Hello @ProggyMat! 👋

Good point - OP my DS is doing archaeology and class civ at Nottingham - they have the usual single hons courses including ancient history, plus various tasty joint hons combos:

www.nottingham.ac.uk/humanities/departments/classics-and-archaeology/study-with-us/undergraduate/undergraduate-degrees.aspx

Former RG STEM admissions tutor here. As long as your DC shows good writing ability on their PS, I think this sounds brilliant. The AL choices show a keen analytical bent which people forget is crucial for History. DC can presumably write about how CC seduced them during Y12, or something similar, and why. I see that as a very strong PS. Supracurriculars would be helpful.

It is exciting to watch a young person follow their dreams. I would only encourage your DC to be sure these are the unis they want because I think that, if the writing skills are demonstrably there, this set of ALs, PGs study goals would make any admissions tutor blink with pleasure. DC should be encouraged in a highly aspirational choice if they so desire.

Best wishes to your DC

Thankyou folks - poetryandwine which other unis would you suggest?? DC is looking at specific course curriculum hence their current shortlist...

Hello, OP -

I understand that straight Ancient History is not offered everywhere, and I have great respect for your DC’s ability to know their own mind.

But I wonder whether they have thought of the tradeoffs, in particular the incomparable intellectual pleasures of the Oxbridge tutorial system? Oxford offer Classical Archaeology and Ancient History or some such. In return for the moderate change of focus, one gets to spend a significant portion of the working week in tutorial with, typically, one fellow student per session and a sequence of the world’s great scholars, from advanced doctoral students to leading professors. The intellectual stimulation is incomparable and there is nothing like it anywhere else.

DC also appears to be a strong candidate for Warwick, St Andrews, UCL and Edinburgh amongst the highly ranked universities offering degrees related to AH. Whether those degrees are exactly AH or suited to DC’s intellectual preferences, I don’t know.

Your DC will thrive where they are happiest. My concern is that perhaps a very strong group of peer scholars could offer a type of satisfaction they haven’t thought about. The Humanities subjects are so brutal for professionals that academic staff are highly qualified pretty much everywhere, and likely to find someone with your DC’s analytical abilities a joy. Again, these comments assume a strong writing capability. DC will need to acquire that before university if it isn’t already in place.

Oxford also offer Ancient and Modern History. I haven’t checked Cambridge

Many thanks for your thoughts and insights, really appreciated and have passed on to partner and DC for reflection.....

OP,

Cambridge seem to offer only a general history degree. History-adjacent degrees are separate, but worth investigating.

Some Colleges require AL history, some recommend it, some ‘find it helpful’. If your DC is interested I think it is worth contacting an admissions tutor at a college that finds History AL helpful. Maths is also listed as a helpful subject. FM is a distinct bonus in terms of showing analytical capacity.

DC would need to explain their path and their PGs succinctly in this email in the hopes that their unusual and valuable strengths will gain them encouragement. Ironically Oxbridge, who are most interested in raw talent, are most likely to bend the rules in a situation like this. (Oxford Arch and AH does not require History).

With the Oxbridge deadline on 15 Oct your DC needs to decide about Oxbridge very soon. Cambridge do a written test of analytical skills at interview. Samples are online. DH can fill in their other choices on UCAS later - but check that in case it has changed this year!

Agree with <poetryandwine> that he should include for consideration the Oxbridge degrees, for example classical archaeology and ancient history at Oxford
https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/classical-archaeology-and-ancient-history
He would need to submit pieces of written work (essays he has already done) for the Oxbridge courses.
Is he specifically interested in Classical history or does ancient middle Eastern studies also appeal? That usually will involve learning an ancient language(s) to be able to study original sources. UCL has a degree that combines Classical civilisation and ancient Middle Eastern Studies https://www.ucl.ac.uk/classics/study/undergraduate/ba-classics-and-ancient-world-sample-options-2024-onwards/ba-classics-and-1

Are they looking for a literature and culture based course or a more historical based one?

Depending on the modules taken, the Classical Civilisations A-Level is literature and culture heavy (vs. the Ancient History A-Level which is highly source and date based). If they're particularly enjoying the World of the Hero side of the course, they may want to consider Classical Studies, Ancient World, CAAH, etc. If they're looking to do a more history based course, the personal statement will need to cast wider than the CC A-Level, so get that extra reading in now.

A Classics/Classical Studies course can include Ancient History, but an Ancient History course won't necessarily include the literature, art and philosophy aspects. Both fantastic choices, but my advice is to make sure they know exactly which one they're looking for, especially if it's the Class Civ that has inspired the change.

Three of mine read that subject at university, 2 of which are now lawyers (well.... one of those qualifies next year, but almost a solicitor). Two did History and English Lit with the A level in classical Civ. as that tended to be recommended as A levels going with it and the other geography and history A levels with Cl Civ. However I see no reason why having done maths is a barrier. Two of mine did it at Bristol and they actively chose that over Durham which was salso one of their 5 choices but they firmed Bristol over Durham. i would have been delighted over either university and I am from the NE, father and brother went to Durham.

..father and uncle I meant to say....

I did Ancient and Modern History at Oxford years ago - depending on his interests he can get away with very little modern history (I just ran my ancient history modules on Rome into the the earliest of the modern history modules on the later Empire) It was an amazing place to study and doing an "unusual" degree meant that I had one to one for pretty much all my tutorials with the leading experts in their field.

Maths and computing can be really useful if DS is interested in the social and economic side of history as it can be necessary to create databases and drill down into them (and understand how statistics work/can be manipulated).

The big issue with Oxford is the need to do the HAT - if he wants to apply he really needs to start looking at that asap.

I’d agree with @poetryandwine about peer group, if he’s very interested in the subject. My sister (20 years ago admittedly) went to Liverpool for Ancient History and says whilst she loved the city, she wishes she’d been in a cohort which loved the subject. They were more focused on partying and enjoying themselves! She thinks she would have enjoyed Oxford more academically.

Good Classics departments include:

Bristol
Durham
Manchester
Nottingham
Exeter
UCL and KCL
Edinburgh
St Andrews
Warwick
and obviously Oxford and Cambridge

Look at the courses carefully and get DC to think about how much they want / want not to learn ancient languages, as there is a lot of variation in whether it is compulsory and for how long. (For what it is like to learn an ancient language, there are some good free tasters for Latin and Greek on the Open University website)