Looking for view on DS's uni shortlist for English Lit

[Revengeofthepangolins]

Would love to hear any observations that anyone has picked up from their offspring about DS2's short list for his English Lit application this term. He's looking at Durham, UCL, Oxford (maybe), Edinburgh, Warwick, Kings and Exeter. Keen to hear about the course, (teaching, support, module choice, community etc) life at these unis generally for humanities students, perception of offer rates, (all the usual really!) but also whether anyone has a sense of whether they offer good support for SEN/ autism. I was wondering whether Exeter has a history of being flexible about missed grades (other than this year), as the problem with this line up is that it is nearly all AAA (his predictions are 3Astars, but as this summer has underlined, there's many a slip between etc). Warwick shows an alternative of AstarAB which might be helpful if that is a standard offer, but perhaps it isn't.

Basically, any feedback appreciated!

@Richmondgal "I love reading but I decided it was not a worthwhile degree and something I do for pleasure"

🤣wait til you hear what my dd does with her Theology degree!!

Durham had the same offer as her Cambridge one so couldn’t be used as insurance.

Exactly the same reason as to why my DS didn't consider Durham!

OP I went to Bristol and their support for my autism and BPD was brilliant. It's also a really great city!

Bristol is the uni that didn't take my student (now headed for Warwick) with dropped grades, mind. They also really messed him about after results day, making him wait... he had accommodation sorted but I know it's been tricky for other students this year.

Also, just to say, it's a long running ting. Edinburgh , revered uni obviously, is not especially rated for English. Certainly, I'd favour York and Birmingham over it, and everything else on your DS's list.

I think I saw a comment on another thread that English Lit was in clearing this year at Exeter reduced from AAA to ABC.

DD really loves the course at Exeter above all her other choices. Dare I say it even over Cambridge, which as someone else has said upthread focuses on a lot of texts in old English.

I can only help with Oxford. He'd need to show extensive reading outside of the curriculum. I'd advise reading one or two other volumes by each of the authors he's studying, as well as some contemporaries of theirs to contextualise their work more widely. in addition, a strong pattern of his own private reading interest, which can be anything at all. He'd need to show strong interest in critical theory and be able to speak knowledgeably about more than one critical form. A genuine interest in language, syntax, etymology, modern languages etc would help. Accurate citation is an advantage. And he'd need to be good at Prac Crit as he might find some sprung on him in interview.

I just read this thread to my DD who has autism and is soon to start her 3rd year in Eng Lit and It was so encouraging and heart warming to read the very positive responses to Richmondgal’s post.

I do hope that it doesn’t put anybody else off from choosing a subject that they are passionate about, rather than it all being about earning potential.

I get really excited when someone posts on MN about their DC wanting to do English (especially, sorry ichabod!) if it's a boy.

And then at least one poster always comes along and pisses on my chips.

It's so depressing to think that teenagers are looking at average earnings, with no critical thought, and then choosing to do a degree that may not be where their interest lies.

Lower average earnings do not mean that English graduates can't earn high salaries. Similarly higher average earnings do not mean that an individual graduate will earn a lot.

I have two family members with maths degrees and earn more than both with my music degree. The highest earning person in our family didn't go to university. This stuff is so obvious, it's surprising that DC heading for higher education would be so dim.

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful and detailed comments.
I know it seems a slightly mixed bag location-wise. We live in the London and his big brother goes to a London uni, which leaves me very conflicted – having him close in order to be able to help him easily if needed is very appealing, but I am also aware that London doesn’t give so much social support/ uni experience. A collegiate set up seems to offer a better social safety net (I might be influenced by that having been my university mode) of which Durham is an obvious option, but much further away. UCL’s course does also look good for English but with low offer rates, unsurprisingly.
I know English lit isn’t an obvious route to riches, but if he didn’t do English, it would be Theology/Philosophy/Anthropology and I can’t believe they are much different. Maths and CS seem to be dead certs these days, and those ships sailed long ago for him. I am just pleased at this point that he has found something he is excited about and has a plan to work towards. He gets so excited as he finds a new author, or new idea, and loves his English lessons which seem to chiefly consist of sitting around in armchairs arguing with each other (as a non-humanities person, I don’t quite see how this translates into getting an a level done, but will leave that thought for another time). So this is the path for now.
@TotalOverhaul I know Oxford is a massive long shot – I really don’t know if he has any realistic chance, but he wants to try and, whilst it uses up a precious slot on UCAS, I don’t really feel I should block him out of caution. I have tried to make sure he has thought through girding himself for the knockback pre-interview or in January and that he can’t apply if that is going to knock him off course, especially as there will be classmates who succeed, but hard to know how that will go in practice.

It is so tricky working out the strategy for “insurance” given that there are two aspects – maximising the chances of getting an offer from a “first choice” uni, and then trying to have some protection against grade slippage. The problem is that with offer rates sagging over the last few years, if one uses up too many slots seeking an insurance, safety offer, one might end up not applying to enough of the ones one would want to firm and not getting any offers there, iyswim. I am sensitive to @Piggywaspushed's comment about being in February (or even ever) with no offer in hand, which I think would be uncomfortable. For that reason, I don’t think one could, for instance, choose Oxford, Durham, UCL and Edinburgh. And agreed, Edinburgh being on the list, I now realise, was more to do with his liking the city and Uni in general and less shaped by English.

Agree with those calling out @Richmondgal - eng lit degree so not a waste of time. And it’s a lot more than reading. My dd did some amazing work for hers. She ended up at Leicester btw @PettsWoodParadise and she and I really rate the course and the departmental support - might be worth it as an insurance @Revengeofthepangolins

It's so depressing to think that teenagers are looking at average earnings, with no critical thought, and then choosing to do a degree that may not be where their interest lies.

I’m not convinced that they are to be fair. Although some posters would have us believe that. I started a thread a while back about good universities for English Lit and there were lots of comments about humanities subjects being navel gazing and not what employees want from graduates. They also suggested that employees saw studying a subject that one loves for a degree as selfish. I took it all with a pinch of salt.

employers*

@Revengeofthepangolins

I think in your shoes I would probably be looking at Oxford, Birmingham, Warwick, York, Exeter and UEA, all doable in ~2hrs or less from London if he needs support, and all nice environments. (Maybe Sussex and/or Kent if he wants one with a lower standard offer.)

I would say Durham, Edinburgh and Lancaster are a bit far. I have a DS with ASD who is 3 hrs away on a good day and have often wished he was an hour closer!

@Revengeofthepangolins If most or all of the things I outlined apply to him then he should definitely apply to Oxford. It would only be a waste of an application if he isn't already reading widely outside of his set texts.
Being autistic shouldn't matter at all. DS has just finished at Oxford and although he isn't autistic, at least half his friends were. Being geeky or socially gauche really doesn't matter there as much as it might at some of the cooler unis.

In my experience of being part of graduate recruitment for two major prestigious organisations with grad schemes, the degree subject is irrelevant. Once the degree class requirement is met, it’s all about soft skills and the application itself.

I’m not in any specialist area with professional exams but these grad schemes are sought after and lead into well paid roles.

This isn’t the case for all graduate employees of course but it’s not remotely unusual.

Hi, OP -

I am a former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor and I agree that the concerns about doing English Lit are, to put it mildly, misplaced. However to get a place on those grad shemes applicants typically need a ‘good degree’ and this now means a 2.1.

My experience on Mitigating Circumstances Panels suggests that to achieve that most students with special needs require careful planning and good support. I agree with@Piggywaspushed that your DS like every applicant needs to apply to a broader spectrum of choices. It’s interesting that Exeter may have taken ABC in Clearing this yesr, but we don’t know what lessons will be learnt by whom. Every applicant needs a safety. I don’t know much about standards in Eng Lit but I don’t think you mentioned one.

Oxford. I like your attitude. However a young person in my family with moderate anxiety and depression transferred out even though they were on track for a 2.1, at the end of Y2. The reason was the relative lack of structure in the English Literature programme as compared to other ‘upper RG’ programmes. The learning experience was centred upon intense weekly essay writing. Fabulous and valuable, but they found it highly stressful. Also, students with autism may find the very demanding reading list overwhelming. But I agree, the decision is ultimately for your DS.

I also agree that the choice between city or campus us more important for most, but especially SN students, than they tealise.

best eishes to your DS.

UEA is renowned for this subject

No, it isn't. It's renowned for its Creative Writing courses. Creative Writing and English Literature are totally different subjects.

Exactly @whathappenedtosummer23 - English Lit is highly regarded and is competitve for lots of grad jobs.

Also, I did English (albeit a while ago!) and have been a copywriter for 20 years - so you can use your degree and earn well too!

I think you might mean Oxford, not Cambridge. Cambridge does not include English pre-1300 as default (you can choose either early Middle English or Old English as an option, but they're not popular). Oxford, OTOH, is heavier on it.

OP, I second (third?) the comment that York might appeal.

DD chose English Lit at Cambridge over Oxford for what you explain @SarahAndQuack. She is currently knee deep in pre-reading for Middle English but does not have to go back further than that. The Oxford Syllabus just didn’t appeal to her but clearly does to many others.

Oh, she will love it! Middle English is the best, honestly. It feels like hard work at the time, but there is nothing like realising you can read SGGK straight off the page and understand it!

Thank you for that. It is lovely walking past her bedroom as she finds it easier saying it out loud and I hear snippets that remind me of my Uni days, she is even using my copy of Riverside Chaucer as it is the exact same 30 plus years later.,I suppose what is 30 years when reading something 700+ years old. She is currently doing T&C, then due to do Pearl and SGGK is the last one before she starts term.

Lots of Edinburgh English lit students did not get their degrees this year because of the marking boycott, which would put me off