Aviation Operations with Commercial Pilot Training BSc

[Ib1234567]

Hi

https://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/aviation-operations-with-commercial-pilot-training/

If someone done this degree or similar and clarifies these questions for me.

1. it say you will get frozen commercial pilot which you need to find somewhere else to train you, is that right?
2. also what job you can do in meantime that you are looking for provider to train you

I am trying to help a friend her child is really interested in becoming a pilot , I know it is really expensive but what a bout doing a degree and working in the industry then maybe save up for the training . is there any other way of doing it ( I heard that some airlines train pilots but couldn’t see anything online). Appreciate any advice

This might be helpful:

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/transport-and-logistics/how-to-become-a-pilot-in-the-uk

Thanks , as I can see self funding is the only way to become pilot. I will let my friend know .

This is open for recruitment https://www.aerlingus.com/careers/careers-in-the-air/future-pilot-programme/

thank you, I will forward it . I didn't think that these kind of opportunity still exist. .

BA has just launched its 'Speedbird Pilot Academy'. Applications open in September.

https://www.pilotcareernews.com/british-airways-launches-speedbird-pilot-academy/

Be aware that a class 1 medical is needed for any pilot training. This costs upwards of £700 and is a very thorough medical. DS has had many friends who have not passed due to the medical uncovering an underlying health issue such as a heart murmur. In DS's case, he would not pass due to an astigmatism.

How old is your friend's child?

Thank you @Oldowl , he will be 18 this NOV

thank you for the medical assessment . i was not aware of that.

@Ib1234567

I'm no longer active in the industry and certainly not that up to speed on training these days but FWIW :

I'll look at the Uni course link later when I have more time but to answer question 1:

Leaving aside a thing called an MPL, yes, your commercial licence when first issued usually only allows to fly (i.e. be type rated) on whatever small light twin the flying school had and that you were examined on for initial licence issue.

Go to an airline to fly bigger stuff and you will then need specific training on your final aircraft type (e.g. A320, 737) to get a type rating on that machine. That's an expensive process and some airlines actually have been known to charge for it, TBF many don't.

The Class One medical is absolutely essential before contemplating handing over any money. It's really not astronaut level or marathon runner level stuff but you can get caught out by really minor conditions which would have zero effect in other jobs but can be a complete stopper on licence issue.

Be very careful, especially if self funding, in any dealings of the Flying Training Organisations - (Flying schools, colleges)...many of them have hard nosed venture capitalists as major investors and they want your cash.

If you talk to any/read any of their info expect to hear that "it's never been a better time to train", "never been quicker to get a Long Haul Command"... they will want to sell expensive "zero to hero", residential Integrated 18 month courses, not so keen on letting you spend a bit less by spreading the course over a longer period (modular).

And yep, there's a bit of a sign that the airlines might just be starting to fund at least some funding, such as BA opening up an ab-initio scheme, as mentioned by @Oldowl .

HTH

Has the young man rejected the "Engineering first" approach to flying?
Is the attraction of this course that it avoids much of the Maths associated with aircraft?
Does he have a background in playing Video Games and Simulators or does he fly model aircraft and therefore understand more about flying.

My friend's son trained with Easyjet after graduating with a a first in engineering. They had to sell the house and downsize to put the money up for his training - £100k I think.

@Ib1234567

now had a v quick glance at the Uni link

It does indeed look like the course delivers the ground school (academic element) only of the commercial licence…the flying you need to actually gain the actual licence itself is a pay for extra.

If the idea is maybe to do the degree and academics for the licence, and then work to save up to do the flying some time later caution might be needed.

The licence academic results have (well certainly used to have) an expiry date…which certainly didn’t used to be particularly generous. There should be some guidance on the CAA website if those involved want to check the current state of play.

@Ib1234567 , or anyone. It used to be that lessons for 'simpler' licences were way cheaper in USA. Say up to twin engines commercial. Still internationally recognised standard though.
Does that still hold? Does it apply to big commercial airlines types?

@notimagain Thank you I understand now that the degree doesn't mean anything without the training ( and money minimum 75000). I appreciate your looking at the course.

@FordKent I didn't understand . what is engineering first approach? Is there is another way to train ?

@RampantIvy That is what shocked me that to train you need a lot of money , I really thought it was doable but with this amount of money I think it will be hard to convince the family. The only way is for him to just graduate and work then save.

You can build basic hours on light aircraft certainly cheaper in the US.

Problem can be getting qualifications/ flight tests (type ratings, instrument ratings etc) done with a US (FAA) examiner accepted over this side of the pond by the CAA (UK) or EASA (europe).

Some of the UK flight schools that have campuses out there have CAA accredited examiners on their books...

Not sure pure hours building on a commercial airliner has ever really been affordable (maybe John Travolta aside), we're often talking five figure dollar/euros sums per hour operating costs.

Just putting it out there, but if they really want to fly, how about looking at a military career? All three branches have pilots.

@Ib1234567

“I appreciate you looking at the course”

You’re welcome..I’m afraid initial issue was always a minefield so it’s a case of checking with the uni and also maybe the CAA if there’s any doubt about timescales.

As for the money..once the airlines and the Flying Training Organisations worked out demand for pilots could be satisfied by people paying to train, often by students raiding the bank of Mum and Dad it has made access to the profession for many almost impossible…fingers crossed more sponsorship will become available.

The mil option just mentioned isn’t a bad one (I and many others started out there before going commercial) but there’s the whole military lifestyle to consider, the choice aircraft type can be limited (you go where you are sent) and of course there’s often a minimum engagement term…it’s probably the best flying in the world but it can come at a price.

Finally I hesitate to mention it but has your friend had a look at the pprune website, particularly the subsections on professional pilot training? Some of the discussion there can be a bit robust and you need to sort the wheat from the chaff but there are at least a few people there who are very up to speed on the current state of play when it comes to Uk training, flying schools, etc.

This is an interesting Blog about 'pilot training' by an easyjet pilot who finished his training just before covid. He is very open about his education , funding (93k back in 2016!) and training. Might be worth a read.

https://www.pilotgeorge.co.uk/about-me/

At my flying club none have a degree, it is about the experience. I used to do it as hobby, now just too expensive even for that plus the green element.

We have a nephew who is a pilot. He was lucky in that he grew up in Asia and found an airline out there willing to pay for his training. I think he then did about 18 months in Australia, which apparently has a good reputation for pilot training. (Lots of clear skies in the desert.)

Old owl is right to warn about the medical. The nephew was initially picked up on a single minor point, but was somehow able to redo the medical and got a clean bill of health.

There is currently a huge shortage of pilots, so things may be more open than they normally are.

There is currently a huge shortage of pilots

The flying schools and other training providers have been pushing that line for years, though TBF there might be some truth in it this time, witness BA starting up it's scheme, which in various guises has been "on again, off again" for a decade as demand as ebbed and flowed.

From what I'm hearing the main problem some airlines are having is getting experienced captains, especially trainers to work, for the T&Cs the airlines want to offer...they're not quite so short of new pilots, but it can be region specific.

My neighbour's wife was complaining this afternoon that her BA pilot husband is extraordinarily busy. However I think he is an experienced captain.

That said it should cause airlines to look more at the pipeline of pilots coming through.

Problem is the chuffing industry is so unpredictable that it's almost impossible for the airlines to plan properly...it's also not helped by them wanting to run with minimum establishment ( did you mention BA?)

I flew commercially for over thirty years and in that time I saw several unforeseen dips (wars, 9/11, etc) that meant the airline went from going flat out to either laying crew off or at least standing them down temporarily...sometimes with only a day or two's notice.

Covid was an extreme example but back end of '19 everything was on the up, I know where I was there was talk of fleet expansion and the need for lots of recruiting (we'd already been piling people in from other airlines and the military for over a year).

Spring/Summer 2020 a lot of the newbies (as in 100 plus) were laid off and many others (100 plus) took early retirement.

Now it's on the up again...but next week?

@Ib1234567

Morning..for info for your friend, from the website of one of the ( generally well regarded) organisation that teaches commercial licence academics:

"How long are ATPL theory exams valid for?"

"You have 18 months from the date of your first exam sitting to pass all 13 exams.

Your exams are valid for 36 months from the date of your last exam pass for the issue of a CPL and IR". (Instrument Rating)". (My emphasis).

https://www.bristol.gs/frequently-asked-questions-about-atpl-theory/#:~:text=Your%20exams%20are%20valid%20for,of%20a%20CPL%20and%20IR.