How many insurance choices?

[Dixiechickonhols]

DD in yr 12 predicted A* x3.
Shes been consistently working at this level and achieved AAand A/A* in her mocks so the predictions do seem realistic but I’m very aware that nothing is guaranteed.
Course she’s looking at is A*AA for most top unis. One she likes is AAA so was planning on using that as an insurance backup.
Is that enough or is it advisable to put one with lower offer.

Is he enjoying Law at Durham? We were impressed with course, she liked fact you could do a module from another department eg politics even on straight law degree.
We have had the full discussion re doing something else and then conversion but she’s set on law.
Thank you, she’s starting to think about statement she said the session they did at Oxford in the evening last week was useful (she stayed over with school)

@Dixiechickonhols sorry, Ds1 isn't doing law, I think Durham's standard entry for most courses are A star AA. Ds2 is year 12 and at a state school. They have already started their personal statements, basic bones of them anyway. As he has summer schools etc he will be adding that stuff in later. Definitely use what Oxford have told her. Lucky to be able to stay over and get that sort of information.

Check out YouTube for lots of students talking about the LNAT and law courses too. It is a brilliant resource.

Thank you. Yes she’s state school.
I’ll have a look on you tube.

Oxford, Kings and Durham all require LNAT.

How good are they at LNAT?

For any student I was advising I would be urging them to pick a course that did not require LNAT to reduce the risk of doing badly in it.

I am all for aim high and only apply for unis even as insurance if you actually wanted to go there. DS applied for somewhere with a lower offer but he didn't put it down as his insurance as he didn't want to go there . Aim high and if you don't get the grades and there were no mitigating circumstances, re evaluate if you wanted to try again to improve your grades or do something different

She’s started some revision. She’s taking politics/religious studies/history so the essay part she’s very comfortable with.
She’s got one none LNAT (Queens, Belfast) on her list but yes if she doesn’t pass it knocks out most of her choices.

To add.

1 in 5 applicants to study law at Kings is offered a place.
1 in 8 at Oxford.

I can't quickly find the comparable statistics for Durham, but they typically have over 10 applicants for every law place.

It is not unlikely for a student who is predicted A*s and As to apply to those 3 and get no offers from them.

@jgw1 Durham applicants vs offers Cs admissions statistics are available here - www.durham.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/how-to-apply/undergraduate-admissions-statistics/

Third time I've shared this page today - it has 2 sets of data, one for UK applicants and one for international applicants

@bucketoflego re I think Durham's standard entry for most courses are A star AA

That's not correct - Durham has plenty of courses whose typical offer is AAB.

Of course, it doesn't mean if you're predicted AAB you'll get an offer. Most Durham courses are hugely over-subscribed and it's one of the universities that is very popular with international applicants also.

That’s what my DD has done this year. She applied for 2 courses at Bath both wanting AAA but would drop to AAB for core maths, but thoroughly read statements so she wasn’t sure she’d get an offer, Loughborough (AAB) no grade drop but more likely to offer. Then 4th choice was York also AAB but may reduce to ABB for core maths. But it was a ‘may’. So if they offered a non-reduced she’d then still need a ABB insurance as she’d have 4 at AAB! She decided to just apply to those 4 and see what happened with York and give her time to find other options at ABB (far and few). York offered within 48hrs with ABB so she didn’t need to use her fifth choice. It could be risky if the chosen universities (Durham etc) take forever to decide.

Agh! That was meant to have included the quote about applying to 4 initially.

Ds applied to three initially and then made a decision on the final 2 to apply for based on the offers he’d received. It worked well but did mean more waiting around. Tactically it meant he was making a more informed decision.

in the end he switched his preference after attending offer holders days. So he’s ended up with an odd situation where he needs lower grades for his first choice than for his insurance.

@Dixiechickonhols My DD did not study law but is a barrister.

Oxbridge provide a lot of lawyers. As you know, lawyers can study any degree then convert. So huge numbers of bright young people want this career.,One thing they seem to do though is network. As a result DD needs to look at where has best networking for her career. Where do employers recruit from? At the bar, 40% Oxbridge. Durham, Kings and Bristol are up there. Manchester for the regional bar. So where does dd want to work and barrister or solicitor? City or regional? The choice of uni really can dictate this. Modules studied might dictate area of law she wants to practice in. MLaw after can help with that though. She needs to get vac schemes and work experience so placing herself in the best position to do that pays dividends.

If she’s likely to get high grades, do not drop to any course asking for a B. She will nail one of the top ones. Oxford then Durham, Kings or Bristol. I would not look at Belfast as it’s not good for general uk networking. Bristol would be way better. Lancaster for regional firms or Birmingham. There’s massive competition for many law Jobs so degree, university, networking and passing selection tests matter. Anyone who wants a career in law is advantaged by doing a LNAT course as they are the most competitive and respected. Hope that helps.

Yes I’m very conscious it’s a competitive course and she’s picking most competitive unis hence my question about maybe looking at one with a lower offer.
I didn’t realise adding more later was an option so that’s been very helpful from posters who have done that.
I suspect way to go is to apply to 4 she’s got in mind and then if no offers or only 1 look at adding another.

Thank you. She isn’t sure if she wants to qualify as a solicitor or barrister yet, possibly more policy side/civil service.

One attraction of Queen’s course was their links/placements.

Given it’s no Lnat, ‘only’ AAA, and a higher acceptance rate it will definitely make her list. They seem to be pushing for more GB entrants, they pay £3000 yr one. Plus she (and we) really liked it.

https://www.qub.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/law-major-politics-llb-m1l2/

Thanks good to know this is a possibility, I think that might be a good option for her.

Most government employed lawyers are the CPS. Not so many make policy. There are of course civil service lawyers but Queens is no advantage for that. Is the £3000 the pull to NI? But career wise I cannot see that it’s good when compared to Oxbridge or Durham. Placements might not mean anything if she cannot pass civil service entrance tests. (Not saying she cannot but their jobs are ridiculously hard to get). Policy jobs in any field are also very hard to get. Experienced lawyers advise on policy.

Yes if they make their grade offer it’s an incentive for GB students to travel to NI and goes towards yr 1 accommodation and travel. They paid her £100 to attend the open day.
I’m not sure if she will ultimately want to qualify. Keeping her options open by doing qualifying law degree and she genuinely wants to study law. Possibly civil service/foreign office or similar. She’s got a physical disability so would be in guaranteed interview if meet criteria for those type of roles, but do appreciate it’s extremely competitive hence looking at competitive degree from a top uni.
My instinct is she can’t just have all A*AA/lnat on her list. Queens is her insurance so to speak as one she would be happy to attend but still ticks boxes like Russell group and is in top 10 for law.
My issue is AAA seems high as an insurance to me but I recognise I’m old (law was ABB at a decent uni in my day)
My question was if I should be encouraging her to look lower but solution to leave a space or two to add later seems to be best option.

My issue is AAA seems high as an insurance to me but I recognise I’m old (law was ABB at a decent uni in my day)

But with the introduction of A*s and AAA offer is the equivalent of 3 B's in old money, isn't it?

This thread is useful to me too OP, I'm going to encourage DS not to apply for every place at the same time as Oxford to see what offers he does get, that seems like a sensible option.

Glad it’s been useful to you too. It’s more just thinking out loud.

If DD isn’t liable to exam panic, AAA is likely a fine insurance offer. I don’t think anyone has addressed my question: will Law Faculties advertising AAA actually make this offer to candidates with higher PGs?

Hence my suggestion to apply to an AAB School. She can discard it if she gets an AAA offer she likes elsewhere.

Whatever she does, Durham and Bristol are better for law in terms of employment if she wants to qualify. It’s better to keep all doors open for a Law career. If DHs wants a few grand now, that’s very short term.

FO is a very very long shot. Just look at the stats of applications vs successful applications. Tiny % get a job. So I would try and play to her strengths which is getting the best A levels she can and making a competitive application to Oxford and at least one other LNAT uni. If you are only so so about qualifying, not sure that’s what Oxford are looking for. They tend to educate the great lawyers of the age!

She can also apply with grades in hand. Then she knows where to pitch. Waiting for Oxford rejection means it can be tight re deadline for others. It doesn’t help
much in my view.I would also add that, truly, if you are an Oxford/Durham possibility, LNAT really should not phase you. It’s what the brightest and best can do. They don’t avoid it and then think they will work on law policy or the FO. It’s pays to accept the challenge.

Oxford will make offers on 9th January 2024.

The equal consideration deadline is 31st January 2024.

Although of course if one doesn't have an interview at Oxford one already knows one is not going to get a place.

It is quite likely that other universities for a competitive course like Law will wait until after the equal consideration deadline to make any offers, since they then know the whole field and can consider them equally.

No she’s good in exams and like she keeps saying to me she’s not anticipating having a bad day in all 3. She’s predicted A* x 3.
I’m not sure what actual law offers are would be interested if anyone knows.
Top 10 law advertise entry requirements as A star A A so even if they offered above that she’s fine on her ucas predictions/mocks.
To get to A A B offers it’s looking outside top 20 for law and other compromises which aren’t appealing to her.
She’s at Cambridge for her last open days this week then we’ll need to take stock.
Thanks for everyone’s comments.

@jgw1 It does not necessarily work like that. Admissions tutors are surely sifting from October deadline and are not waiting for Oxbridge. Otherwise, no wonder some offers are so ludicrously late! Offers do come out before Christmas for competitive courses from some universities. If you still put down the same 4, why bother waiting? Waiting won’t help with insurance choices. You just know you have or haven’t got Oxbridge. AAA is the minimum for law. It’s pretty much what many employers expect. So other choices should be AAA and I would always choose 3 LNAT one. If you think you are good enough for Oxbridge, LNAT should not be an issue. Then maybe a couple at AAA and base that on where you want to work and type of job. Always remember the brightest of the bright can convert to law. We have 18,000 law grads each year without any others who convert. The pool is vast.